25 Comments

  • Richard Lucas

    There is no discussion in this video of Progressive Dispensationalism. I think what is meant in the title description should be "Progressive Covenantalism", which is explicitly discussed.

  • Brandon Adams

    Hi Jesus,
    Thanks for watching. If the purpose was to provide an overview and introduction to NCT, then yes, it would be better to interview NCT theologians. But since the purpose is actually to explain 1689 Federalism in contrast to NCT, the chosen speakers worked very well. If you feel anything has been misrepresented, feel free to note it here.

  • cbx316

    Thanks for the video. I appreciate the irenic tone and respectful dialogue. My only complaint is Dr. Renhan's insistence that NCT has no footsteps in church history. I believe the Zaspel & Wells have presented a thorough presentation for the historicity of NCT's view on the law in their book New Covenant Theology. Being one who is struggling with these issues, at present I land somewhere between 1689 federalism and progressive covenantalism. This video has stirred me to deeper study, thanks.

  • ray anthony Rodriguez

    1689 Federalism here misunderstands the NCT view of the moral law- which we do subscribe-better use the term of "universal categorical imperative" -where all men are under obligation to which is a Thomist term. We don't use the term the 'Covenant of Works' because the term covenant always refers to a historical redemptive intrusion by God and not to the original relationship between Adam and God. NCT is NOT 'Anti-All-Law'; just the Mosaic Law for Christians. Since Christians are under the Law of Christ. Jesus died in behalf of Adam and man to fulfill the terms of the original relationship -maybe "Creational Relationship" instead of the historical covenants. That is why we also emphasizes the work of the Holy Spirit and the New Creation -instead of the theological construct -'Covenant of Grace'. And NCT always refers to the 1644 Baptist Confession instead of the 1689 which was more indebted to the Westmnster Confession.

  • ray anthony Rodriguez

    Does 1689 Federalism believes that the Christian is bound to the Saturday Sabbath ?  know you do not -but then instead uses this confusing term -'Christian Sabbath' – which is the Lord's Day in the New Testament.

  • Sean Richmond

    Kingdom through Covenant, the book which outlines Progressive Covenanalsim, isn't outlining Progressive Dispensationalism. To understand Wellum and Gentry here it helps to read their book, which I don't think the video, especially the speaker who absurdly challenges the relation of their doctrine of the trinity to their outline of the historical covenants, does a great job articulating. Their can't be reduced to half a YouTube video, like all things worth learning. The best way to evaluate it is to take it up and read it.

  • Andy McKinney

    No one has mentioned the great little volume by former Spurgeon's orphan and one time Principal of the Irish Baptist College David Kingdon called "Children of Abraham." It should definitely be reprinted. He lives in Wales.

  • Gnosis Seeker

    I'm a covenant theologian struggling to find the need or appeal for creating this system of "new covenant theology". What is being suggested, this video seemed to speak right past me or over my head rather.

  • 2 Cor. 5:15 Life

    It's pretty condescending to say that NCT/PC theologians have not "thought through" the issues (like what Jesus died for or what law we hold people to today), over the last 30 years. Really? Those are MAJOR issues. Of course they have thought through them. There are answers to those questions from NCT and PC alike and that is documented in their written works. Now, if you had said, "So far, there is disagreement on these major issues–some NCT people say "this" and some NCT people say "that," some NCT say "this" while PC says "that,"–I would fully agree with you if this is how you phrased it. The fact that there is not agreement about a couple of major issues, like IAO, is somewhat to be expected but also (to me), alarming. I do not want to be associated with NCT if a nonIAO position wins the day. At that point, I'll use the PC label exclusively. HOWEVER, disagreement about issues, whether amongst themselves, or simply a disagreement with what YOU believe, is NOT the same thing as not having thought it through. You sound to me like you are accusing them of being serious theological lightweights who don't even recognize the major implications of their own view. Truthfully, this video needs to be redone to account for the exaggerations contained therein, including the insinuation that "newness" is suspect, especially when the same could be said of RBCT, even if you trace it to the 1600's. New Covenant Guy has done a video using many quotes from the early church, like Tertullian and Justin Martyr, who had a view of the law, including the abrogation of the Sabbath, in their writings, such as "A Letter to Trypho." Frankly, RB theology should stand firm in the substance of their own beliefs rather than try to put down others through untrue insults and insinuations. You're better than this. It came off like you were worried that a competitor was stealing your thunder, and that's just not necessary.

  • The Berean Voice

    The reality is that you people should be ashamed of yourselves. I was one of the original writers and speakers in the NCT movement. Not one of us ever suggested that there is no "moral law" [I preferred to call it God's righteous standard since the Scriptures never use the term "moral law"]. We all consistently maintained that law that reflected God's holy and righteous character has existed and will exist as long as God is the sovereign ruler of his creation. For you to suggest otherwise is shameful. The reality is that there is very little of what you have said about Federalism that is different from what we have written under the title of NCT. Please try to be more responsible with you accusations in the future.

  • The Berean Voice

    Just to answer your question about what law Jesus died to satisfy, he obviously satisfied the covenant law under which he was born and under which he lived his life. If you had read what we have written, you would have known the answer to the question. That law was an expression of the two laws [laws that have obtained in every age and on which all the Law and the Prophets depend] concerning our duty to God and neighbor. At that time, the Mosaic Law was the hightest and most intricate expression of God's law that had been given and Jesus fulfilled every bit of it. The righteousness required by that law is now imputed to his NC people because he has fulfilled all the conditions of the covenant. What NCT maintains is not that there is no righteous standard, but that grace under the New Covenant enables an obedience to the righteousness required by the law [which was in the hightest sense love to God and neighbor], which the law could only demand but could not produce. A comparison of Exo 19:5-6 and 1 Pet. 2:9-10 demonstrates that NC believers are now heirs, in union with Christ, of the conditional promises of the Old Covenant because he has fulfilled all the condititions of that covenant.

    Additionally, we have maintained that the commandments of the Mosaic code are indeed profitable to show us what God loves and what God hates. This is usually in terms of principles (e.g. the principle of separation from sin). What was true of Israel physically as a type of the NC people of God can now be applied to us an a spiritual sense.

  • The Berean Voice

    "When I go to my pagan neighbor and tell him to repent, what do I tell him to repent of?" Wow! Have you even read the NT Scriptures? You tell him to repent for suppressing God's truth in unrighteousness. You tell him to repent for failing to reflect God's glory. You tell him to repent for failure to show gratitude to the God who made him, sustains him, has revealed himself in the creation and in the gospel that is to be preached to every creature. You tell him to repent for worshipping and serving the creature rather than the Creator. And I could go on and on. Perhaps you could figure out a way without using the covenant God made with the nation of Israel to which the Gentiles were never subject.

    As I think through the biblical record of apostolic messages preached to Gentiles, I can't think of a single quote from Israel's covenant [the Decalogue]. Perhaps you can show me one. It was wrong to have other god's beside Yahweh before that covenant was given and it is wrong to have other gods before him now. That is pretty much covered in "You shall love Yahweh your God with all your heart. . ." Why impose commandments on Gentiles under which Gentiles never lived?

  • Julian Clarke

    🌟 Who Is the The New Covenant For? 🌟

    The Old and New Covenants Were Never Given to All Nations

    If You Are Going to Respond to Scripture You Must Reply with Biblical Precepts ( Witnesses), NOT Your Emotions

    2 Corinthians 13:1

    1) This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established .

    Is the Entire Bible to be Taken for Truth ?

    16) All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching , for reproof , for correction , for training in righteousness

    Religion Taught You that the New Covenant is for everyone who comes to Jesus, but what does the Bible Says*

    Hebrew 8: 8,10
    8) For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord , when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah :

    Israel represents the Northern Kingdom and Judah the Southern Kingdom

    Both Kingdoms * fell away from following *God's Laws

    Jeremiah 3:8
    8) And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away , and given her a bill of divorce ; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also .

    The New Covenant Were Those Laws Given ONLY to Israelites by Moses, that we the True Negroe Israelites Broke

    Negroes Were Called Niger which Means BLACK or Different Shades of Brown Negroes Are NOT Africans

    Acts 13:1
    Now there were in the church that was at Antioch certain prophets and teachers ; as Barnabas, and Simeon that was called Niger , and Lucius of Cyrene, and Manaen, which had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul.

    Further text Jesus , Prophets and Disciples were Negroes / Black

    The Messiah Revelation 1:13-16,
    Job :30:30
    Angels Black Ezekiel 1:7,
    Judah is Black Jeremiah 14:2

    Continuing

    ?? The New Covenant Were Those Laws Given ONLY to Israelites by Moses, that we the True Negroe Israelites Broke

    Romans 3:2 [ Only Israelites were Given the Laws, Statues and Commandments ]

    Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God .

    Precept:

    Deuteronomy 31:16
    And the LORD said unto Moses, Behold , thou shalt sleep with thy fathers; and this people will rise up, and go a whoring after the gods of the strangers of the land , whither they go to be among them, and will forsake me, and break my covenant which I have made with them .

    The NEW Covenant was Promised to the Children of Israel ( All 12 Tribes ) Since We Broke the OLD Covenant , this NEW Covenant was Never Given to Any Other Nations outside of Israelites .

    Continuing for Hebrews Ch 8

    Hebrew 8:10
    10) For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts : and I will be to them a God , and they shall be to me a people :

    The New Covenant Was Never Given ALL Other Nations (Strangers) Outside of Israel that Accepts Jesus

    God says the New Covenant with ONLY Israel and with Judah .

    In Summary

    What If You Do NOT Believe, do you Think it Matters, do I really Care ?

    Romans 3:3
    For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?

    Romans 3:4
    4) God forbid : yea, let God be true, but every man a liar ; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

    GOD Word Is Final, Men Hearts are Wicked with Lies

    Amen

  • James Surnear

    Ok not trolling completely new to this channel and the men in the video.what is the mans name who’s speaking at time stamp 1:03?

  • Will Scholten

    Scripture teaches we are still in the old covenant, till this heaven and earth pass away!!!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbOCnRFx-h0&t=1s

    Scripture proves we are all
    still under the Old Covenant until this heaven and earth pass away

  • Taylor Callen

    New Covenant theology has made a lot of progress over the last 30 years, but this is compared to the hundreds of years which baptists have defined and defended 1689 federalism. To say that NCT/PC theologians haven't "thought through the issues" is not a slight at their exegetical work, but an acknowledgement of the developing theology which is still being developed.

  • Jan Ridderbos

    Fox News says 'fair and balanced." Usually that means objective reporting. In the case of this video it means that Reformed Baptists are the only objective voices in the world. Poor representation of NCT.

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