Courts Matters Bill and Tribunals Powers and Procedures Legislation Bill- First Reading – Video 6
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Courts Matters Bill and Tribunals Powers and Procedures Legislation Bill- First Reading – Video 6


I called David Clinton Thank You mr. speaker I’m pleased to take a call on this these cognate bills the court matters and the tribunal powers and procedures bills so I think we share a common position with the labor party we will be supporting this bill or these bills to Select Committee but it’s a select committee and we’ll be wanting to have a few matters resolved there are some good continues bills they do some useful and positive things but there are also some issues that we do take with some of the new provisions in the bill and indeed there are some some matters we think usefully could be and included into the bill given that it is an omnibus bill there’s an opportunity there to perhaps some and said some further provisions into it I think it’s timely to be looking at the processes of the courts we could regret I think that this bill is somewhat incremental it does make changes but given I think if you talk to judges perhaps off the record certainly lawyers people engaged in the courts on a day to day basis court staff I think they’ll uniformly assure you that the operation of the courts could be a great deal better than it is there are roadblocks there are issues of timeliness of accuracy there are great many matters around our courts there are serious issues about the broader matter of access to justice there are to me too many people who for a variety of reasons are unable to access our courts and thereby to access justice some of those funding issues some of those a legislative regulatory but I think we could really do well with an overall almost a clean slate approach to the operations of our courts so the iShare again mr. little comments about some of his concerns about the language around efficiency certainly we do need to improve the efficiency of the courts and I’m reminded that year or two ago there was a program in place called the E Court which I understand was endeavoring to eliminate a great deal of the paperwork to enable a lot more day to day transmission of documents and alike electronically that project failed I understand whether through pickups in the software or for whatever reason it didn’t progress but I do think that would be certainly something that any government ought to be addressing endeavor to to recall the journey committee I think all the law and order committee was taken into the nether regions of the wellington district court and shown just a few months worth of paperwork and it was a very large room stacked to the ceiling of paper and I think we do have to consider that in the broader scheme of efficiency in the courts that to the extent we can get an electronic exchange of documents and the like providing their secure and able to be validated and not and so on I think that would be very useful step forward hmm sir I do think we in terms of talking about efficiency however we have to be a little bit humble collectively and remembering that some of the previous reforms of the courts intended to increase efficiency have actually achieved the exact opposite and I’m thinking of the centralization of Records particularly in some of the larger Auckland courts in Auckland and Monaco in wat akari with a centralization of Records and information has led to a really significant reversal in fact in terms of efficiency constantly hear from lawyers that having centralized documents in one or two places it means that lawyers and court staff often no longer have the personal relationships that have actually facilitated the flow of the business of the courts in the past and it’s unfortunate that that centralization program despite on paper being wonderfully apparent to to drive efficiency actually has not done that and so I think these as these bills work their way through the committee’s I think it’s important that the recent experience of attempts to make bill our courts more efficient should be fairly close to the top of mind the tribunals get obviously one of the bills is focused in on tribunals and that’s a good thing tribunals often the unsung heroes of our just the system I think people ordinary news are more likely to engage with the Tribunal’s or a tribunal I believe than they are with a district or a high quarter in the other court and so to the extent that this does look at matters affecting tribunals I think that’s a very positive thing in a useful development I think the idea of increasing the monetary threshold for that just Disputes Tribunal from a at most 20,000 up to 30 is sensible I think in the passage of time $30,000 is not worth as much as it was five or ten years ago obviously inflation alone would suggest that a higher threshold would be appropriate and I think that’s a useful step i think there’d be a general general support for imposing a little bit more monetary penalty on real estate agents who run amok there have been too many instances where agents have not performed professionally and that can come at extraordinary cost to people who are seeking to buy homes people who have sold homes and discover in fact they have been cheated when those homes get sold on in a matter of hours often to a significant advantage to the agent rather than to the VIN door so sir I think that will win some some support similarly being able to get some more structure around the private security personnel private investigators I can say having for my sins been a a private security person for some three years or so as a part-time occupation as a student that that sector was not in a particularly happy state and I do think that as it’s become increasingly professional as training requirements have come up I think that this the additional that the Disciplinary authority given to the oversight body will be a useful and positive thing sir I’d have to say the greens are slightly less happy about the increased powers that are intended to be given to court security officers their power to detain effectively the power to arrest for a range of matters and actions these are powers so that we associate with police more more readily our police force are highly trained very professional ninety-nine point 9% of the time they get it right and while it’s very simple to give more powers to court security officers we’d like to be reassured through the course of these CDs through that as the bill goes through that there will be a in parallel with giving these individuals more powers that they’re also given more more arm more training more capability and I think of simple things like being able to detain a person for carrying drugs or associated paraphernalia pretty straightforward comment but what actually constitutes associated paraphernalia I suspect the police officer could give you a pretty comprehensive um description but I’m equally sure that most court security officers could not similarly the I get a little bit concerned about the language that a person can be detained potentially if they refuse to obey a direction from a CSO to do or not to do anything quote that is reasonably necessary to protect the safety and security of people around the court precinct so that language of reasonably necessary implies a fairly high level of judgment a good understanding of the law a good understanding of what is appropriate behavior what is just posing or grandstanding or what actually does genuinely represent a threat so I guess the key point for me sir would be to say that as we give these officers more powers we need to be very very sure that they also have the capacity and the training to be able to to meet those powers equally sir we have some concerns and these may well be resolved I mean these are matters for debate at the committee rather than hard-and-fast positions but equally the giving of more authority to registrar’s and judicial officers to do things like issue arrest warrants these again are more methods that we’re more commonly or powers rather more commonly associated with judges so I do think that as we allow people more power more responsibility more authority we need to be convinced that the training that the accountability and that the associate had responsibility placed on them to get it right well will be applied and implemented as these as alongside these bills are they are enacted so so having then those who would some indicated the Greens will support us legislation will be looking for some changes and some clarity around some of the provisions at the Select Committee but on balance they do seem to do some useful things and we can support them at least said far Thank You mr. speaker I called Dennis O’Rourke mr. speaker New Zealand first will support the

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