House Subcommittee on Legislative Process Reform  12/18/19
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House Subcommittee on Legislative Process Reform 12/18/19


>>The hour of 10:00AM having arrived in a call to order the subcommittee on legislative process reform members who have in your packet in agenda. I’m just going to go over briefly what we plan to do. They’ll be a number of items presented to the subcommittee will vote on each of those items individually they want to remind members of the subcommittee that you’re voting in other members who are not members of the subcommittee will not be boating; but certainly are welcome to the discussion in the motion will be 2 riera for each of these items to the full rules Committee so that will be the process for today; but again for our guests you are 2 are taking the discussion and to offer advice and if we don’t take could hear the full rules Committee. Obviously might. I think we’ll start with we have a 4. So we don’t have a sun going down to number or for discussion of legislative operations training in the stomach. Mister mccormick before you start since representative him to just walk in I’m going to move the minutes of 1024 19 was there any discussion. Seeing no discussion of those in favor of the minute signify by saying aye I I any opposed me motion approved and I will move the minutes of 1112; 19 is there any discussion. Seeing no discussion all those in favor signify by saying aye. So the minutes are proved Mister McCormack welcome to the committee is identify yourself further.>>Mister chair members time as Petr recurrent contractor post research.>>And would you go over the eye members in your packet there is it should be stacked Porter legislative operation trainings would you go over that proposed.>>Members the proposal is a brief. Restatement an enhancement of the current practices of training. Well the 2 clerk Murphy; bill marks from house to school we of conducted a wide variety of training. on a train with doesn’t creased over the last 10 or 15 years as the training ranges from training there are still ways and I’m always nca is praying for the part of the research offices. I’m the chief Chris office for example do extensive. Before session works and how members can comport themselves on a house for fiscal folks will work on understanding how a budget is prepared what budget documents look like what members can expect to see our office has connected new chair training; I’m paying for members. We also coordinate training for outside for example; the it was all members have received is a. Our office with an outside contractor; providing the training. That and his own increasingly as a wide range of excellent training services that they can bring to bear. So this proposal would formalize the training. And put the chairman of the committee of Rosa let’s that of ministrations with the ranking minority member in the business of coordinating and putting together a more coherent schedule and of training and also allow a venue for members to ask for specific kinds of training that we don’t provide now that we can easily begin to provide our that we can go find. And so this would um ah Fort Myers; what is becoming a growing line of business for not person staff.>>Thank you Mister chair and wanted to ask Mister McCormack has this been an annual event of this training because I’m not aware that the opportunity. For all members; you know to to be trained in this way occurs everywhere. Read every session.>>Mister current members notes this is happenstance in the sense that.>>we put together. Training as requested by a new majority for example do it in a whole bunch train that person and that will begin to to Peter off and.>>That usually means that when a majority is the 3rd 4th 54th year we’re doing a lot less training because they feel more confident in what they’re doing. And then the cycle starts up again with the new rich already for example; new chair training is is that we have very heavily in the first year of a new majority as the even of the people of church and are a little bit uncomfortable; but then it it Withers away. So I think one for one of the reasons scientists propose a list to to prevent that sort of boom bust cycle and try to create a more schedule.>>Represent room back to Univision this to be much more hands on experience we would have members experience being a chair we would have members experience presenting a bill we have members experience how you amend a bill in various different ways so that you actually understand more the process of what happens that would be all members whether you’re chairing a committee not and I would hope that we would also use because we have such excellent media company. We would have video examples of what is good procedure and what is failed procedure so that members would be able to envision both and avoid of course the failed the concentrate on those 6; 6;>>Most share that yeah; I mean that is on student test IQ. I would wonderful and it put an additional burden here include annual training. And my point is we don’t seem to have it very regularly at all.>>If the first sentence will designing conduct annual days there would you like to make that annual ongoing training. Or something to that effect. Represent Remick offers the amendment in the first sentence to make that conduct annual ongoing training. Seeing none all those in favor further discussion on legislative train.>>Sort of bring up something like this from a voice not previously heard that. Into in a practical matter; what happens to be certain that. Or the desired impact of procedures is actually what people experience.>>An ongoing base and you do with the understanding that you’re going have is a close as we can replicate real committee hearings I think you’re going to have an experience that they will be able to say well I learned something. Instead of walking into a committee and not knowing what’s going on at all or going to the floor sessions again not understanding what. So the hope is that we replicate as close as possible real experiences; and you see them and then you say oh okay at its that’s what happens. And you say that’s a good in some parts about.>>Good morning. Mister chair. Thank you I as a freshman just want to.>>Say how helpful I think this would be far myself and my colleagues and on an ongoing basis. Now that I’ve been here year; I feel like I’ve learned a lot but.>>Every was that feel like I have more to learn so I believe what value this and I’m sure many of my colleagues but as well thank you.>>Around and I think you’re no not inside least bit of that went on a model of this nature. Those students go through a preparation that starts in August for an event that happens in November. So the students that you saw there they all too you’re a committee they all present a bill in committee they all do what it’s doing being done here with making committee minutes and they all have to rotate through I envision this training to be something like that. So that all of the members would have that experience and they would know exactly what it is. That will happen in a real commit.>>There was a reference to La isn’t see A’s. Going through training like this I don’t see actually any reference to step into says this training is for members chairs and ranking minority members is there. A comparable prison somewhere for staff.>>A future member in that we have we generally to the staff and aside from the formal. That to the rules Committee staff training is is.>>A lot more ongoing a lot more.>>Connected to your relationships with the directors of this case; it’s killings. Sample we have a new small but with 2 or 3 majority staff work out one engine room will do one offering for them. We could create one but it’s it’s it’s a lot more Rutan eyes and a lot more something that we probably would need to adopt a new policy for.>>For the discussion to what is now the amended.>>The very last point book point talks about ways to manage a legislative career. Just wondering.>>And for members of this back and came from working with the current air staff.>>I think it if you look at the book 0.1 of things that. The fact that was a part-time legislature and that you therefore have lives jobs as to these responsibilities outside a legislative environment that constrain and aunts fact your left a career. Formal black letter law required it’s that affect what you can and can’t do. And others are. To some extent that he’s clerk office will attempt to. Educate inform members of how all of these new scary. Requirements effect. We start that right at the very first it’s a with new members orientation. But there’s only some I think perception my members that we don’t do this on an ongoing basis and that things shift things change. Requirements effect to change and that we should do this and wisdom Angeles that occur are ways to fit your complex. Into the earth’s. The case is that of his elected number I would envision this part of something that the sla specifically Berg that there’s a whole series of kind of training modules that they could bring that would help legislators understand the pressures of alleges that of life.>>Representative Nick we’ve had a huge turnover in staff. We’ve also had been very large turnover. This is to clarify would even those relationships are VA staff and. Staff person knows hopefully that there are limits and the members know that there are limits to. That should be part of the workplace. He wrote it a little bit over these turnover.>>Mister the sounds sounds great.>>So I thank you Mister chair; I’m just going. But there be some sort of a cost associated with this training that we should limit or consider.>>You cannot person staff is freedom will train you for free; yes; it’s often provides priest training and services part of our annual fee for being a part of the ncsl so that’s kind of or low cost. Occasion we will have outside trainer that with specific an acknowledged like we did in sexual harassment case and those cases leadership.>>It frees up the money for that special training or we help think of ways to get that training for you without cost.>>Reps around as you do bring up a. And since we just had the first many session in 20 to you. Very meticulous and recording how that was put together so that if we happen I hope we do have another many session in the neck; its interim. We can go back to that and then use that as a model.>>Mister chairman Mister I’d like to suggest that we also have training for new system site. Computer system sent phone systems media system SEC put into place sometimes with. Knowledge except we get a notice saying mounts Saturday everything’s going to be down because we’re putting in something new and then on Monday. Everybody that’s affected is expected to know what. Today system or their computer aren’t there ways off receiving an. And sending. Technological. Tyrion says.>>Out into the caught or the world or whatever. There’s got to be people that. So we would call a cap somewhat the same. Starting now point.>>If you want to make of him and I could suggest or we could just take that is something that we would work on just work on it.>>This requirement that as reason that a good point because even in the new cubes that have now been assembled throughout this building. And they’re big improvement over the previous cubes for legislative assistants and others. You will notice that there seems being a mission about legal size paper being stored in those new cute I can understand that perhaps are moving away from paper but if we are and we should have that in the forefront of why we’re adopting these new. It does get to be a little cumbersome that’s not your responsibility that’s ours. It is an interesting 09:00AM.>>I would also like to underline that it in consequential when we moved from 30 year-old e-mail system that have certain assumptions and how it will function and what it would do into what would be probably can sort of state of the art current best thing that Microsoft could put together which is clearly not what its competitors would have offered are down so we are all assuming that when we come here; we come with experience and know how to run these things that when somebody turns them on in front of us. I happen to have been trained in a number of different systems at the corporate level before I got here I had never CNN email system like the one that we were using here and then continue to use for 3 years after it. I don’t think I ever really got that concept of how that system did things and I think that that falls under this kind of a problem is that there was no training other than maybe some colleague of mine sitting next mayor don’t all who could say I was you know in order to do that or to make that multi. Person recipient thing happened in the email. This is how you make the system do it. We do struggle here sometimes with just purely the simple thing that in the rest of the world the wide world out there would say when we bring a new system that everybody is going to have to use you will all know how this is going wrong. And right now you’re all sitting there with Microsoft and all of its toys and splendor and I we none of us have been told what it will do little except for random. Like this could do or come back and try just offer that that we do have president. That kind of challenge in front of us where people have no clue; what the powers are so that we rely on maybe hour staff well hopefully the staff might have known home Microsoft. 3.65 actually runs because it’s not exactly like. The old office that we grew so sorry I just want to add that has underlined that this is not just in passing in in small thing about training these I I don’t think we do it at all that’s just an editorial comment that my>>And you don’t represent like making excellent point the fact that e-mails that you see under this new e-mail system in the e-mails that you don’t see that’s an experience too. So the way that your e-mail is now. Cleansed is interesting because I’ve had to go back and find some e-mails that I somebody thought I had received and they they weren’t in my first e-mail but that they were in the other.>>There are 2 buck guests; there’s a lot of it. There’s there’s a lot of know that that’s an excellent point. Under this we would also.>>And the training on how to use technology when wearing committee when we should be listening to testimony.>>On our devices whenever the devices. We’ve got numerous complaints from individuals who travel a great distance and then they come before us and we seem to be distract. So our focus should be on the individuals that are tested. I would hope part of the training would be that too.>>I would only add that you’re aside and to qualify what you’re saying is probably not. It’s a bit disingenuous from what we did we passed a state law that when you are holding and a cell phone you are by definition of law in Minnesota you are distracted. And yet we sit here pass laws and that sort of thing and we will stand oh; yeah; but I was paying attention to what was being said as well as I was reading somebody else’s e-mail to me your communication I can’t agree with you more that that’s almost the fact that this defacto distraction from your job.>>I read it I hope other people are listening to is the complaint that I get more often than not is when we do have individuals who come up and it’s 2 hours from now. And they testify and yet most of the committee is buried in some debate. We have to retrain how we operate in committee to and I hope that will be part of this. The street. Focus on what’s there not what’s here by the way my phones turned over so I can even see it. Any further discussion to this proposal. Seeing none all those in favor of referring us to the old rules Committee signify by saying aye. any oppose motion prevail. The mystery publicly may need you to come back for number 5. This requirement; the bullet by bullet down number 5 and then we’ll take each one individually for discussion and vote.>>Mister chair; which one is number 5.>>It’s perspective changes to House rules and joint rules and there are 1; 2; 3; 4; 5; 6 different proposals on the>>I don’t have the order so we’ll get to let me know it when you like to do. Number of proposed rule.>>Changes that are front of you the first document has to changes.>>And it’s on to the same house rule.>>And the changes are separate concepts they appear before you because you probably see all it fits into the game. They get rules hospital 6.4 all. It is the houses. Regarding regulation of conference committees Congress committees are stance the railing about what role but there is a second House rule that touches on some components. The first change is in paragraph C. It requires the chair of the top of the House chair of the conference committee. Who holds the gavel to call public hearing of the Commerce Committee. That is with the exception of Sundays and holidays. That mirrors the exception isn’t generals.>>Thank you; Mister so there has been I think some back and forth on these the gavel holding means to you know this is for every each each day that changes are each meeting; you know it may rotate so the rotation think something that seems likely there’s to be a dresser Lane are the practical aspects of that and of we are only half of the picture so it comes in a down to the Senate and if they’re not going to be looking at this sort of as a joint change; maybe this you know just not going to not going to work.>>Reps from the katc that there will be some proposals in the joint rules in your right we can only operate within our body but we are home full that the Senate would take the wisdom of the House and what’s good for the public and would. Go along with us on this I think they are half of the problem. The pressure of it has to start something.>>And Mister chair; the Mir I’m calling of a meeting though I guess is you know involves a lot of things and I’m hopeful that maybe the staff that is impacted by you know what’s going to happen as a result of that you know there needs to be some in input perhaps. Lot issues that really affect them. Can you get a room.>>The practical aspect of in one issue for the other aspect is a conference Committee’s empty until you put something in it. So the hope would be that these conference committees would be held in there would be the post and the proposals will be or won’t be voted in. But at least there’s an understanding that they’re being exchanged proposals whether you vote on them and that the public would see with those proposals are.>>Thank you. Mister have a limited experience with this is my first session being on a conference committee; but I’m very much had the experience of the Senate not not calling hearings; I it seems to be that the bullet you just say Mister care about. Would have implied and it to me of a having this public space where hopefully then proposals are actually being put I think this makes a lot of sense I’m and I’m supportive of it I do want just make reference to represent index first coming about that being some ambiguity that I’ve seen in terms of gambles changes every day or every meeting based on weekends and holidays; not something that I got off to think more about each member that being an issue that to come up with us. This spring as the Senate was not I’m calling a meeting like on a Saturday and we were we would have called the meeting on a Sunday then. And certainly would have the gavel if they chose not to call their meeting on the Saturday. And so I there may be something I guess keep an eye on that as opposed to making proposal for a change and at this point. But as far as the idea can we have conference committees they should be having hearings each time that makes great sense to me so they Mister Trump.>>Represent room back percent into the Senate suffers to from a large turnover of both members and staff. And the institutional memory of what conference committee should do actually do has faded. So we’re bringing it back. Further discussion some Mister Karr joint over heart beat.>>Members that are part the required a written or electronic copy of the report. The place on the desk reach from the House or delivered electronically 12 Ares for for action. The report by the House this mirrors the joint rules; however; what’s not included is the waiver. For the end of session the waiver takes place. After the last Wednesday at the end of session. And that means that on that there’s a price for Sunday Monday; the last 5 days you don’t have that was 12 are waiting period. If you doubt that this rule that would mean that the Commerce Committee report that came to the House floor always had to set for 12 hours. And that would mean that the latest accounts committee report could come on the last day of session would be 1159 which will give you one minute the vote part of her training at midnight. So practically speaking with that will be the morning and the last to consummate would have to arrive with their reports. There is a waiver on a majority of all members to waive the rule.>>Thank you Mister chair; so of it would seem to me that the last sentence somewhat negates the whole point of it so I’m as particularly by allowing. The decision to suspend the rules to be made by a majority.>>A vote.>>So I mean there’s hardly any meaning in. It pretty much is going to but whoever is running the chamber running the show so that was a discussion about whether be a 2 thirds vote or. Something on that order.>>Percent run back you can offer an amendment like an open amendment. If not here and then the full rules Committee.>>Well I mean assist Mister chair does seem that. If we really believe this is a good thing to do and I think we do generally. You don’t want to have it be too simple to be overruled so man I Woods I would suggest is at a minimum we have a 60% vote. Let that that’s called a.>>But there that these don’t operate in isolation either I would hope that if we had if we had deadlines to conference committees where those conference committees would be concluding their work well in advance of the end of session. So that you wouldn’t have them concluding in that last week you would have them concluding it week or more before the end of session that this wouldn’t in need and that’s that’s another part of what we’re going to discuss here. There is no one way to fix this thing is going to have to be several things. And then they’ll have to be in force. But you do make it an excellent point.>>Was Jeremy I think somebody has suggested that the on the committee we don’t have a lot of folks that have actually chaired conference committee so and this may be a better point to have discussed in the rules Committee.>>And I would hope reps and run back and others would bring it up. Also bringing up the stage way of how these conference committee should conclude there. We shouldn’t be concluding that in that last week should be concluded before the last week which pushes everything back you start to take a look at what happens.>>Mister chair; sometimes it I I find it interesting as we talk in these kinds of things is that we actually are inferring a solution and glory. Challenge that isn’t present in the discussions so. Are we have we discussed and decided that we are going to do the thing that should come first in my order of what matters if we talk about how to. Shut off the engine. But we haven’t talked about whether or not we’re going to quit moving. That’s the way we end up doing these kinds of things and it’s just in some ways it’s a little quizzical to me so why wouldn’t we be deciding on that there will be a deadline and forced and enforceable to when things must be done. It actually exists not one that can be pushed aside or step aside. But one that the only way around it would be to get to the next session kind of construct and thinking. Really have deadlines that would function both for conference committees and and that’s it I know I may be speaking in sacrilege there are a number of reasons that that could be true I but I but I really don’t see. Why we do. Intend to have rules. That would be trying to put a way to put to a bow on the effort when we purposefully have left all kinds of doorways to subvert any of those kinds of efforts so sorry about my I know that that was more a comment that question.>>No that’s fine and um I would hope that your comment is well taken that in the process of this we do exactly what you’re saying is this doesn’t work unless you do a number of other things to proceed. And that’s the point of all of these hearings and what the changes both in that right rules in the House rules would be. For the This proposal. All those in favor of moving this to the full rules can be subdivided I imposed.>>Mister mccormick in the next month and the members of Mister chair members the next change people’s internal keep the 12 are wrong told German a session. This is a proposed amendment attorney general to point out 6 if you turn the page to the back side you’ll see the changes. Language which sunsets every session. The 12 hour rule. After last Thursday that the community session and by believing that provision it. and it’s the 12 hours. After before you vote. So this is there’s no waiver and this like the last person the House Boehner rule. This absolutely her fence that’s not a conference committee report that comes out in the last 12 Ares of what’s that session.>>The represent and things your chair so I guess some time wondering why the different approach than adjourn rules that because they couldn’t be that majority waiver is this an alternative path for us to consider whether having majority waiver is in the room we just. Pass to move along or this is another option and just trying to understand how to think about these 2 proposals in in conjunction with one another MR.>>I represent that I think this is just another option. The key difference is that this is in general. When you’re trying to create a kind of a hard and pass the You have a choice. Do let the body way that line and you know majority can rule. Make this something that you want followed uniform of the draft that I was asked to put together makes this a hard and fast rule. So it’s okay and the last of wood said of session. That morning times community reports could arrive at that and as their role that they want committed 9. Was finished electronically delivered to all the members that means at 09:00PM you can still vote on it and you have we are before minutes for a German; but if one came in at. I was posted. You could still waive this rule with a 2 thirds majority. And that meant or waver is not stated in a row; but that is under the regular order you can waive rules of the 2 thirds majority you cannot with a clear instead of the Constitution. And move the bill forward so the body isn’t absolutely paralyzed by this. A 2 thirds waivers possible of of of the past week. Or there was a technical provision; the defense one sentence that was universally for some reason got up with the visor and came out at 1152. PM people could with girls and pass its bill but it’s not. In general is that for the role writer you recommend that you don’t want to suicide pact that the president absolute final no way out. But absent found no way out is that Hermann.>>Thank you Mister chair does have a couple of questions. So Mister mccormick the that waiver the 2 thirds or are that that cut the that would have to be acted upon separately by each party I suppose in that case is that correct. We’re just returned from the front of us. And then Mister chair of the content of a mystery car. And can you just uh maybe I missed or misunderstood; but but the 2 thirds is separate from suspending the rules are that is the same and I’m sorry that I just I’m a little confused. Mister card. The chair members.>>House and Senate rules have a provision allowing the suspension rules but 2 thirds that’s operable at a situation where the bills already had its. We require person second reading on separate days. So the only question is do we suspend this rule of that well our notice; a 2 thirds majority could suspend that Earl annuity Kurds had a constitution of the bill at have met some constitutional provision like having readings on for second 3rd days. So that probably more used in a situation where we actually introduced a bill at 09:00PM on the last day of session. There’s no way you could do a first and second reading in on separate days; so you might occurred Santa Constitution and hits per second. 3rd readings and go to final passage.>>Mister chair us Mister Karr didn’t and so that would also they’ll be a 2 thirds vote. It was an urgency under the Constitution’s the same threshold and just a record yes Thank you Mister Dunn to thank you Mister chair; and I guess I am with this itself understand then that I’m hearing Mister requirement it sounds like this is just sort of an alternative path and if we if we pass this we’ll be sort of giving the rules Committee a couple out of options in terms of the waiver whether majority waiver or essentially the 2 thirds. Weaver frigo this path is an understanding Thank you. Mister chair and represent enjoy understand this and give the leadership something to do with the Senate in negotiations.>>Thank you Mister chair. Any further discussion percent forever. Thank you Mister chair; so Mister Rick are just some players so the language that word. The leading. you know giving us the permission to not have it.>>12 hour rule is that if things occur after essentially the last Thursday of each.>>So the early session. It’s in the purpose that language was put in there in the first place was to give us some flexibility the last 4 days of session as is that a reckless statement of us to the current and 2 members there’s a and a couple.>>And as the number of provisions that are site design your maximum flexibility. For example. The rules Committee can report any time no matter what a business the floors on that allows a sense of the kind a published report of the rules Committee a foot we if there’s something that has been taken up quickly the rules Committee suspends my resolution every year some of the requirements to give additional notice for posting bills at the end of session. This rule is a automatic suspension of that 12 are rule for parents committees. It’s designed to say that it’s accessible last Thursday so after the last Thursday. What you can which we can meet in odd-numbered years so for example 2019 after that last Thursday. A conference committee report can arrive. And be taken up and passed without having to sit 12 Ares. Going back to when this is a doubt that I think the letter was that. Large number of conference committees were held a large number of big little important technical issues and they could come out. Both the 4th session fairly fast. And by doing that you would routinely get into a situation where the House or the Senate might adopt. 3; 4; 5; 6; 7 conference committees on the last day and those will be produced. And you would see them posted by the by track live either a visor and arrive by email on and there be us creating a paper copies come and quite often leadership would say we’re going to your run should now have the tax bill or the bonding bill we’re going to take it up and 3045 minutes. And we what run through those bills. let’s secure dot to this isn’t then be a sea change. And how we constructed. And days the legislative session and. As a person might work on a conference committee. I would then urging the chairs to get time at a reasonable time and we would have a hard and fast deadline. Weather advisory or those bills with half be prepared and host trouble and deliverable before that. Noon deadline and practice for about 10:00AM on that last day. Still could be lost because. You can still put the body in a position where they need it to 3rd the vote to take up that bill that one bill but in general we’ve got this rule; the vast majority of parents committee work. We’re probably back up today with start to be instead of finishing. On the Sunday night. With the actual work and rushing to revise or the latest advisable time that I would stay would be finished on Saturday. Get these bills they’re visor on Thursday Friday Saturday so that on Sunday they could be process better advisor and make clean. And arrive at the latest by Monday I think those are my comments if the property.>>I think Mister stomach or make it said kind of the think your words were the absolute. No way out here is adjournment. But you know with the way it works this past session was the a 3 days at after adjournment we have a special session where we them passed bills; so I mean the way this if this we’re adopt I mean I guess that either it’s because the language were deleting doesn’t reference a special session. I guess there wouldn’t be any real change huge to the rules related to special session. I mean I assume what happened in the special session was we suspended the rules and then so the 12 hour. Rule didn’t apply in that case is is that I mean how how does this work functionally in a case of a special session MR. Machar a match.>>Calling a special session is the governor’s unique power. Therefore we really can’t do anything about this year for example; this is the governor agreed with legislative leadership on a process to finish in the 4 days after session. And therefore the governor then consented and call the special session in a special session. You it takes 5 days to pass a bill. Because you give for second and 3rd reading on 3 days and in the first body and then on that 3rd day the second body picks a bill up. And gives a first reading and they have that second reading and then 3rd reading so that’s a 5 day special session. The way around that is for one or both bodies to declare the urgency and the Constitution and give first second and 3rd reading on the same day that allows a bill to pass the day it arrives on for was the work of the Congress come of this special session to be expedited.>>A I don’t know if anybody wants take time maybe we should actually go offline and get the answer to my question of the happy to do that. What I’m finding in this discussion right now that is the huge chess game that we play and essentially we go to the public and we asked them would you please vote. And declare who is going to be the majority. So when will they declare who’s going to be the majority we then set up a bunch of rules on how we are then going to produce forward with. Those has locked in times and number and so it takes a vote of the majority to do whatever we’re going to do we won’t meander our way through to the end and we just throw that all away because that becomes an annoyance the fact but we agreed with the majority would be there’s now an annoyance so we just screw with the clock and screw with time and then right now I it I find it interesting in mess isn’t the first time that I’ve experienced the so I’m being I’m close to the door can see the door from here actually that. I think it’s interesting that what as I am coming to the end of this securitas path. I find that the one the significant piece of business that we are doing is trying to figure out where and when will the end be declared because then I will decide how many things I’m going to load into that process hawk I’m going to front load all of the thing make everybody really busy so that at the end. My bill will have to get voted on because of rules updates by and that sort of thing. This is this is just plain. Deciding to not have a legislature. Because in the end also are deciding is too when are we going to start this securitas process and then maybe we’ll have an am by the time we get to it. I know that I sound energized about it. But I am very curious. How the public. Should be at peace with less effort to. Allow the Ellen that to happen maybe we should just do that say that we are in continuous session and that we just get voted in and out of that continuous session but that this artificial ending that we all. Lay down and summer to submit ourselves to doesn’t really exist. I have sat here and watched it be manipulated to know and to every end and we are not respecting it in any way doll. I know that in all my previous life. One went in and was declared what it was and am but this is a place which is interesting that by a majority or by somebody else a statement we can push the end to an interminable and and I I think we’re doing that on purpose because we’re in love with the fight that the N B adrenaline of that and we’re not really interested in being done talking about something. Kind of the purpose of the public expects the public expects us to take up an issue discuss it and then vote to be done with it and then they will go on living their lives with the end whatever we’ve passed we really have started to mess with that and I and I could see it coming every year. And I know you can and I’m I’m just loud and noisy about this and it’s apparent that. The Legislature’s yet happy to do that and I I find that I guess I’d I’m that’s a statement of some seeing no further discussion to move that.>>The proposed joint rule change or be referred to the full rules Committee all those in favor signify by saying aye or nay any oppose the motion for bail to Mister mccormick next on the agenda.>>The chair members the next is also a change to joint rule 2.0 6 in conference committees. And you’ll see it on the first page this time in the underlined language. It requires that are holding the gavel to call public Commerce Committee me every day. Weekends and holidays accepted.>>Reps around thank you. Mister chair and I was actually. Thinking about this one of the room another one; but anyway; I’m and so the everyday thing seems to be. Pretty a pretty restrictive; I mean it’s it’s harsh and it seems like. You could end up having a chair called the meeting set the date have everything prepared haven’t you know meeting called and then come and have it be recessed. Right I mean I don’t think we have found a way around that so. And you have at the same time you know to find a lot of people were going to come in ways that time I mean it just seems like it looking at the the downsides here that this may. The event harsh and hard to implement not really satisfactory represent them because I think you’re correct that.>>The other side of it is this unless we have some type of a step process and you for going to have a drop the deadline for conference me and people better focus so much you’re going to put in the conference. And that takes work and that means there should be proposals made on a regular basis of what the conference committee is going to contain by the time you and that conference. You have both sides and we we perfected the one-way not doing it; but I think we have after now take a look at yes it’s our responsibility to make the conference committee report conference committee is blank when we start so every day there should at least be proposals or discussion of what Michael in that conference.>>And representative Mister chair so it in this case. You know if there’s a particular emergency affecting a particular committee chair; whatever to I mean either. We think there should be exceptions here. Some represent them back I’m sure they’re always.>>Thank you Mister chair; I Mister chairman and maybe not too concerned about and to respond to represent the next point about staff and members of the public and that when there’s a conference committee that is that is meeting of course. Really at any time the chair may end up calling I’m a meeting and I guess I’m I’m less that and at that point we’ve got some bills have been passed by both bodies that have been attempting reconciled it seems to me I guess I’m less concerned about there being an imposition on staff or or members of the public. By having a public hearing because of course that exposed to the business of the conference committee so it is just as you’re raising that concerned us for me that seems like like less of one as compared to the benefit of of trying to push for the process of reconciling the 2 bills have been passed that Mister chair.>>Seeing no further discussion move that a proposed rules change be referred to the full rules Committee all those in favor signify by saying aye. Any opposed me no motion fails and Mister accomplished. Mister chair members.>>The next proposed change is a change the rule House rule 4 point o 3. the changes right there at the beginning in her to be.>>And I think maybe I’m not too fussed thought analyst. MR. Marks the public not to respond to his questions but the changed limits. The number of days that are able to create the targets. The budget resolution to 14 days. That’s currently 25.>>MR. Marsh welcome to the committee and identify yourself further. Mister chair members bill Merck’s chief fiscal analyst. This it would take 11 days off the the possible length of time to develop a budget resolution here after the forecast. The only point I would make on this the current rule says within 25 days so it can be done sooner now. Them one other note here is there is sometimes an interest in what the government governor supplemental budget recommendations are after the February forecast and and those have supplemental budget recommendations have been this past year it was March 22th. And its I in recent years; it’s not been any earlier than March 17th; so I think that’s the one consideration hears the to what There’s interest in knowing what the governor supplemental budget recommendations are before that the House adopted budget resolution.>>I thought that was the last thing Mister rock said person could point.>>Mister Mister could use caught. Further it kind of what the what the implications would be the having I’m having that period shorten about just kind they could with your experience having done this over for quite a long What practical implications what we see many give give concerns about there being sufficient time for the targets we generated several what can you but what can you share with drawing on your experience. Mister Mister chair represent>>the key information we get is the February forecast information to Buckley; the end of February since the language keys off that forecast it’s it’s that amount of time we this would give 2 weeks that so from a technical perspective that’s an adequate amount of time to develop a budget resolution. The other side of it is for the majority party to make barely their decisions on what the target should B is that an adequate amount of time are not in that and some the process that’s used and how those decisions are made so I think I think it can be I as I said before I think that meant the biggest consideration is does the majority party want to know what the governor’s budget recommendations are well as they adopt or as they develop those budget recommendations and then do all the members of the Ways and Means Committee want to know what the governor supplemental budget recommendations are before they. Act on the budget resolution. And represent can they be sure.>>And and CA Mister Archer mind us of when the governor submitted recommendations or do I think there is a 2 day for them.>>Mister Martin Mister chair represent Pinto there is no requirement that the governor even submit supplemental budget recommendations. The governors and have been doing that in recent years; but there’s no there’s no requirement for governor to do that.>>Percent and thank you Mister and I I certainly support keeping the process moving. I guess I wonder a little bit about the assumption behind this proposal. That that seems to be that if we shorten the number of days at the beginning of the process we will. Relieve pressure at the end of the process and I wonder if that is the assumption; I wonder little bit about that assumption because it’s because it’s I don’t know that we’re running out of time to the running out of time because everything’s just getting because they’re Sam because we’re not we’re not deciding till the very very end where the decisions are not being made to the very end; he’s the best voice. Some not oppose; but I’m just wondering it from as to Mister Marshall common about some of the advantages of of having a shorter time in the future if your thoughts on that. MR. Marks you wish you.>>Mister represent Pinto members I I the advantage would be the decision is out there sooner and no one other consideration here is the budget resolution can always be amended. So it could be changed after that point in time as well ah; but ah I think you’re also correct. I don’t think that I don’t think the current resolution or the current 25 removed or 8 limits the amount of time available at the end there is enough time later but there are so many other variables in the process>>I don’t know how I yes this would mean the decision has to be made at least 11 days sooner. Did the other and I didn’t bring all my statistics; I know that this past year into 2019 the resolution was adopted on Monday March 25th. The governor’s budget supplemental budget recommendations were officially released on Friday March 22th; so it was a pretty tight time frame to Earth in 20. 2017. I believe the budget resolution was adopted in March 22th; and I don’t remember what day that was and I believe the governor supplemental budget recommendations were around March 17th or 18th that year.>>I think you missed the action and I think part of the understanding of this was to focus the work of the Legislature in January and February more on budgets and understanding the budget. So that when any type of the decision was made we would not be focusing on members bills we would have an understanding of the accounts that are before various committees when we then take action whether it’s a bill or proposal. We have a better understanding of it so that was part of the earlier discussion. Thank you MR. Seeing none. The now move that the proposed House rule with the calendar days P referred to the full rules Committee all those in favor signify by saying aye I I any oppose me. Motion fails to customer front.>>Members the next A change to House room by creating a new house role. House rule 4 point o 1; 5; Also removed from major finance and revenue bill. We know what a major finance and revenue bill as they’re defined under House rule 4 point all 3. So this. A proposed rule states that those bills must not contain policy language that is not directly related to a fiscal decision made in the bill. For that has no. Let’s go impact or negligible fiscal impact as defined under rule; 4.1 o. So the question always arises when you might know fiscal impact we also have a rule that the fines that. Moving on with their culture bill came to weigh-in committee whoa much of policy provisions that there are Ways and Means what prepare an amendment. We’re viewing and moving all of the policy that was and no fiscal impact are negligible impact. Up and that would have to happen that a memo that people heard before refer unease bill so to have a register now weighs in means Committee could choose not to adopt them. You can’t buy and what members who may or may not do but this rule would at least require that that are Ways and Means prepare the and that probably for each of the omnibus bills.>>Thank you Mister come Mister McCormack just direct us to go to the rule is referencing that defines fiscal think I might have a 4.1 oh maybe; but I’m not positive MR. Machar. Mister chair members that is.>>For One oh and it is a. Take a look at rule 4.1 which I think is in your a bill that negligible effects any present or future financial of obligation budget policies are and the state is not 100 to mandatory referral that’s the first important and secondly. Her grab the. Puts the authority of the chairs the clear packs of the Ways and Means to advise the speaker on how to interpret this rule and may determine. Whether or not any given piece of legislation must be referred to the committees. In practice; you sometimes hear among the most recently Turk Carlson talk about his threshold where a bill that has $103;000 a year of fiscal impact is deemed to have negligible are no fiscal impact and therefore doesn’t have to be referred. Through the finance Committee process and that threshold is something that is created by the care Ways and Means to set the taxpayer can create a similar. Fresh role for. What whether fee has 2 of the tax committee is something that the chair; a task that advises the body on.>>Thank you Mister chair; I I guess I’m a little bit troubled by the the reference to the rule or just feel like if this were done for we need to freshen out more because the phrase naked negligible impact in the proposed rule men had there’s a definition and the definition of negligible impact would be negligently affects any present or future financial obligation budget policy or revenue; the state which seems like it’s sort of using the term within its I don’t know I don’t know that it necessarily fresh is that out in a in a real helpful way. And so just if I think if I’m. We might want if this moves forward to to start a market comfrey way unless I’m missing something that Mister McCormack and can comment on my understanding of the rule.>>A stomach aren’t the Mister chair members of the public could be or find a little bit at the rules Committee stop I think that the purpose of signing rule 4.1 on here. Highs this decision to the decision made by the chair of Ways and Means and under current rose the chair of Ways and Means already is deciding. Whether bill has no fiscal impact or negligible fiscal impact and under this role that are ways means what are their purpose amendment that would apply so by saying report; but one all were kind of appealing to the same person. We could we could certainly take a look at whether the language is circular a confusing and think oh maybe work on this at the next stop.>>Represent the district without Mister is it it seems like the way the rule that is constructed both the proposal from the right was in the press room reference to 4.1 o it really gives the chair Ways and Means than a pretty tremendous amount of and which is a fair amount right now; but it seems like even even more in terms of deciding exactly which provisions would fall under this and which ones would get carved out of those bills can you come into this recovery coming to America.>>This is an important note about. House to search the House fiscal under a visor will put anything in a bill that the author of the bill wants to put a constant public on constitutional provision of we will. We want to put something that is finally it’s one of the cans of us tester construction; but sometimes we even do that at the request of an author because the authors the constitutional officer who’s telling us what to do with the bill. So this rule puts another. Constitutional officer or another person who has an election certificate in the decision to move it’s so what our record and that you could. Point in the process at one point under speaker T sun the aversive this rule was floated on the House floor which would require these bills to be really referred. Without a vote. To the rules Committee by order of the of the presiding officer. The 2 clerk oppose that because the chief clerk strenuously believes that all matters must be voted on by the body. But in if that rule have been adopted them. The presiding officer would have taking a look at the end of this bill and said boy looks like a lot of policy it to me and Senate to the rules Committee. Under this version of the rule. Or under that he said percent of the rule. An actual vote of the meme it’s necessary to remove the language in the bill. So this rule that sure Ways and Means prepares an amendment which in the view of the chairs the Ways and Means perhaps consulting with the author perhaps consulting with the minority. But in the view of that chair. Is constitutes extraneous policy language that amendment then his place. The members of the Ways and Means Committee. Thank you Mister chair famous proponent of Robin. Thank you Mister chair.>>I think this is very important to actually have several questions about it and force and a constituent meeting in my office so I’m I’m just going to lay out my concerns and then have to run; but I agree with representative can do about besting more of this power in that chair of the Ways and Means I think the intent is to stop loading up the omnibus bills with policy which I think we are all share a concern about those of us have been participating in this process. And if as Mister mccormick indicated that chair has to put oppose this amendment but then it goes to the Ways and Means Committee in May or may not be voted on. Some high would like to get to the point where the the full House has to vote I don’t know if that’s possible. But it seems to me like it’s very circular. The way. We’re currently constructing and even though we’re trying to get out and I think it it’s incumbent upon all of us not just those in Ways and Means to be held accountable for loading these things up with policy. Thank you Mister chair.>>Well a couple of I I do have concerns to him in. You have an amendment that’s basically said much of this bill; you know is not is not should not be part of the bill what does that do to someone on the floor trying to priya Mann some things are to make amendments then to that on the bus bill does that preclude those things you know that any attempt on the floor for changing. And then secondly this the term directly related I mean you end up having. One person maybe 2 you know who are the persons that will decide what’s directly related which is a you know that’s pretty much of a judgment call. It seems to me a minute maybe some clear cases but. So. You I don’t know how we can be clear about certain policies maybe or just more than the sum of this should contain but. I’m not sure that these do the job very well and certainly it’s on the hands of a couple people at this point.>>Sam Brownback; a member of the committee may be interpreted to to refocus the Ways and Means Committee as a fiscal committee and not the ways and everything. So that when the bill comes before that committee it is the role of the committee to articulate whether or not the fiscal part of the bill meets those budget requirements and that would be the primary focus of the Ways and Means. That would be one way I look.>>Mister chairman I see some value in that I certainly think. Of that size to look at on that 900 page bills an and sort the fiscal few pieces I didn’t forget the 1200 or 1300 feet those 2 and Mister chair.>>Seeing no further discussion on move that this proposal be referred to the full rules Committee all those in favor signify by saying aye. Imposed me. No motion prevails. Probably the last one and 2. That are members last.>>Those road to answer for you is slightly differ firs of the really just a doubt that this won’t apply to the threat rules. This this is more of 100 the approach there is no enforcement mechanism. But some states that major plants revenue bills must not contain policy provisions not directly related to a fiscal decision made the bill. And it also prevents conference committees from including such provisions.>>Seeing no discussion perhaps we had the discussion and the last one was all those in favor of this proposal being referred to the rules Committee signify by saying aye. Hosni no motion predict concludes our work for today unless we have someone who wishes to testify on any of this in the audience. I had no requests for testify. You’re welcome to come down MR. Department thank you and think to yourself. Any discussion by members of this. I don’t anticipate this is the last meeting of this committee I would hope in January we may have a meeting or 2 yet on related issues to this. So I want to thank the members of the committee and also the members who attended over the or committee meetings and then the committee meetings that we had in December 2 before sessions start so with that meeting is adjourned.

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