Mark Ludwig – Legislation – Americans for Equal Shared Parenting

Mr. Mark Ludwig welcome to Actidad the
Awesome Dad Show! How are you today? Excellent, thanks so much for having me
on. I’m really glad to have you on Mark I’ve been watching your story unfold here
over the past few months and I’ve got a lot of respect for your mission in your
change. I’d like to start here as the founder of Americans for Equal
Shared Parenting.. When did you start it and why? What triggered you to start this
movement? Yeah, I started getting active about I guess four or five years
ago. At the time I was still going through some medical challenges but I’d
had quite a background in political arena in the past I had been a candidate
for US Congress against you know Dick Gephardt who is pretty well known he was
the House Majority Leader so next to Clinton he was the most powerful person
in the country pretty much at the time and so I became very well known
politically and as my house started getting better I just started to realize
and okay maybe instead of me being the politician maybe I can use those
connections to get legislation passed and so I start out I did a monthly night
Monday night series on the fathers rights movement page for about a year
every Monday night main goal is trying to educate people in the past people
thought the way to get legislation passed was go protest at a courthouse
and I understand their frustrations I totally understand where they’re coming
from but they are hard time understanding that’s not going to help
get legislation passed it’s actually gonna work in Reverse because it feeds
into the narrative of the angry dad and you know I’m not saying that’s right or
not it’s just the way it is well more often you it’s more effective to shake
hands rather than slap faces right exactly and you know so the other thing
is I spent about a good year-and-a-half sort of getting a lay of the land
because I really didn’t want to start my own group because they were already
plenty of other groups out there it’s just I had a unique niche of focusing
specifically on legislation fathers rights movement is a great organization
and I fully support them but they have so many different areas and they grew
extremely large very fast when I started doing my facebook lives I think we had
80,000 followers on on TF RM and within a year it grew to about
350,000 pretty quick and you know if you read a bunch of like note Ichi and and
you know some of the leadership people don’t tell you that sometimes the even
worse than slow growth is fast growth because it’s hard to develop a culture
and so I finally decided that if I’m gonna focus specifically on legislation
I needed to have a very narrow brand you know when dealing with these legislators
after you’re trying to start my own group still you know still partner
obviously with tea frm and and so many other great groups out there but yeah my
main focus is is twofold raising awareness for statewide legislation and
then getting changes to title 4d with the goal of educating and enabling
people around the country for them to be the change I don’t ever want a Fe espy’s
name to be attached to a bill there shouldn’t be any credit or recognition I
want to educate people so they can be the ones that are making the change one
of the interesting things to me mark as a young father is that it strikes me
that that fatherhood and fathers are very very important right nevertheless
when you start looking at statistics of 50 percent of marriages ending in
divorce about 85 percent of custody battles ending in the father seeing
their kid four or five days a month in my experience most people agree that
dads are important but why do you think we’re running into this situation where
dads are getting so little time with their children why do you think so what
do you think is impacting that I think I think twofold one is is the incentive
program with title 4d at the federal level there’s just too much money
flowing to states with it like it started out as a great program it’s a
great intent but just like any federal program they have Mission Creek and
states start figuring out ways to creatively chase the dollars instead of
truly focusing on the mission that the program is started for and then the
other thing is the bar associate not not the Bar Association I hate to just slam
on groups but there’s many attorneys who take advantage of the fact that an
attorney you know their job is to work for their client not for the child
for the client and so if somebody goes into an attorney nowadays and even if
they tell them I have so many of my followers had called me every day
telling me you know mark I didn’t hate my ex as much as I did until the day I
met with my attorney and my attorney told me that hey in our state you’re not
gonna get 50/50 one of you is gonna lose and one of you
is gonna win so unless you want to lose you better start digging up dirt and
they create that adversarial relationship to rack up billable hours
and it’s just it’s just so much easier then to Pit one against the other and
society still has this belief that women are the better nurturers which which
they may be the better nurtures but that doesn’t say that the man’s role isn’t as
important in a child’s life but if they’re going to pick a winner or a
loser Society still has this image that of the one who raises the children the
most and spends the most time with children they still believe that’s the
woman but as you and I know society is paying a price because those kids are
craving you know anybody who’s ever watched those military reunion videos
where a kid goes tearing out across a basketball court when he sees his dad
coming home from Iraq and jumps in his arms yeah that’s just being grounded our
nature you know even kids who have parents that you know say the parent is
a felon or the other parent sitting in prison doesn’t matter in that kid’s eyes
that’s still their dad and they they love them and they crave that and so we
needed to try and get the legislators across the country to understand that
that child needs relationship with both those parents well it strikes me that
that is by far the optimal resolution is both parents commit co-parenting
communicating so that they give their child the best chance of success one of
the things that really struck me in my interview with dr. Warren Farrell
several months ago was that the actual numbers behind it in the numbers of the
statistics on what happens to kids when they don’t have access to their dad
because they start searching for other role models which might not be as
positive so advocates we have for raising awareness I just I love him to
pieces we’ve been to a lot of cities around the country together lately and I
just think is just phenomenal to help us out for
helping to raise awareness he’s very pragmatic I think his book is
great and it’s just it’s it just strikes it I think it’s really important that we
have leaders like yourself mark like dr. ferral that are going after solving this
problem the problem of not having dads involved in the parenting process in a
in a more pragmatic more educated more level-headed way one of the challenges
that I’ve seen for fathers is to get the heart ripped out at age fuck-you when
their kid is 5 years old I can’t see him anymore and then they just they just
don’t know how to handle it I don’t know how I would handle it that’s frankly why
I’m so passionate about this topic yeah I think that’s it is most people and I
went through a to a degree I you know don’t know if you’ve heard much about my
story and I try to not get into too much of it just because you know regardless
of the things that my son’s mother is done like I said that’s still his mom
and I don’t want him to Google some day and find oh my gosh look at dad just
trashing mom all over the Internet so this really isn’t about her it’s about
the system but six weeks after my son was born I went 204 days without seeing
my son and was led to believe there was a chance I would never see him again
because we had not been married and I had no rights to him and you know when
you know one of the biggest important things in your life is your child you
know even though I only had six weeks with them I mean I did all these dreams
of you know from the time I was in college or so I’m having a child and be
able to be the coach of the baseball team and being there at high school
graduation and dropping them off at school and sitting on your couch it you
know one o’clock in the morning crying for 204 days wondering am I ever gonna
get a chance to to be a father yeah yeah and you do you get emotional and there’s
a tendency for a lot of people to go through a an anger stage and it’s
understandable the challenge is the people were trained to communicate with
don’t understand that anger until you’ve been in those shoes you can’t I don’t I
would not have been able to relate to everything I went through if I hadn’t
gone through no matter how compassionate a person you are you can’t relate to
having your child ripped out of your life
you know people especially you know because Italy was a kidnapping and I
don’t use that term much because if you mentioned that people think well
wouldn’t a kidnapping he was with his mom but they don’t realize from my
perspective I didn’t know where my son was I didn’t know if I’d ever see him
again I didn’t know if I’d ever have a
relationship yeah I didn’t know if he was gonna be taken out of the country I
never seen him again yeah that is a kidnapping but you can’t oh okay well
I’m just curious how much of this it’s not a kidnapping he was with mom is a
social construct a construct of do you think it’s a construct that happens
naturally in nature like I was on vacation a few weeks ago and I saw two
manatees right one was a little baby manatee and one was the parent manatee
and I originally thought to myself oh it’s it’s mama and baby right but then I
was thinking like well how do I know it’s mama right because I think that
happens a lot in nature right or how much of that do you think is a social
construct of man wakes up goes to work goes and fights the wars mom stays at
home with the kids and makes the bed and cleans the house do you think that
there’s do you think there’s plate I think there’s two things going on what
is the way I was raised I’m about as old as Moses and I grew up in the era of you
know the Brady Bunch and beaver cleaver and things like that
where you know the dad sort of ruled the house if you will and was the
disciplinarian but there was a great relationship with the father you know
each field the mother had her role the father had their role not that one was
better than the other but but they did a great job of co-parenting yes
moving into the 90s is Warren Farrell talks to about you turn on any TV show
anywhere in America nowadays you’re not gonna find a father being looked at in a
respectful manner on TV they’re always the buffoon they’re always the idiot
they’re always the butt of every joke and so you have people just have this
image of either dad supposed to be the provider or if dad’s at home raising the
kids he’s a loser he’s an idiot and and like you said there is a bunch of and
that’s why we need people like you you know my specialty is you know
specifically legislation and that’s one thing I think we need everybody in the
community to understand we are not in competition with each other you know
when I first started in this community if you will four or
five years ago everybody was like in competition there was you know if you
were a podcaster oh my don’t you dare do anything on our page no and they didn’t
understand no no no a podcaster fills the roles that meet that I can’t Phil
I’m good at talking to legislators but we need people like you to help raise
that awareness we need people like a Warren Farrell that has the credentials
to get on the big shows the Today Show and NBC and stuff like that and so each
you know have our own rule to try and you know get the image out but but I
said you know people like you’re doing a great job helping to raise awareness
that hey dads are just as important in in raising that child it’s definitely
been a disturbing disturbing track going from like you said the Brady Bunch to
the Al Bundy type of dad style and I think it sends a really bad message to
fathers which is one of the reasons I started the active dad program was to
empower deaths realize like you don’t have to be the buffoon on the couch you
can be involved you and that’s another thing that I’ve been a little bit
concerned with when I when I look at how much preparation dad’s put into
parenting I find that there’s lots of pages lots of resources lots of books
for mothers not so much for dads do you think that that’s hurting us the dads
are just not educating themselves enough or that they’re not involved enough in
the process until it’s too late do you think that please yeah I think it’s
definitely it is all the education is focused on mothers and it’s just it’s
it’s so ironic because they everybody talks about equality equality equality
but you know they expect the man to man up if you will and pay for the finances
but they won’t allow that same man to have the parenting time with the child
and and that’s why is is we know all the statistics those kids grow up and
they’re confused because they love that parent but I you know I look at my own
son Levi has made the comment on many occasions that mom is his real parent
because he knows that if she wants to bury the schedule she can do it and it’s
just you have to choose your battles I can’t be first off I don’t have the
money to keep taking her back to court and she knows that and she knows I just
have to suck it up if she wants to change the schedule but if I ever asked
to change the schedule I have basically big and and Levi knows that he
sees that and in his mind I have to wonder what does he think of when he
thinks about what he want to be a dad Sunday you know every show the dad is an
idiot he sees me begging for time trying to get more time with him not getting
the time he sees me having to bounce around and flounder and beg to get what
little time I have and I have to wonder does he want to be a dad when he grows
up or is he gonna think it it’s just not worth it I don’t know if I want to go
through that yeah again it comes down to the message that we’re sending to to the
children to the father’s – to parents in general is just it just seems really
really negative and I definitely want to see dad’s getting more involved more
educated on the process so let’s shift a little bit here mark over to your area
of expertise because I’ve seen you speaking with governor’s senators
congressmen a lot of people that can actually make real change so I’m
interested we talk about talk a little about title 4d but I’m wondering to me
it strikes me there’s not a ton of resources to empower dads what type of
resources would you like to see put into law that can help dads play a more
active role in the parenting structure well at the federal level we need to get
away from that funding mechanism that’s rewarding States for that split time
mm-hmm and at the state level we need what we call 50/50 rebuttable
presumption laws that basically says from a due process standpoint until any
facts are known the child should have equal access to both their parents now
it’s you know it’s not everyone so all the opposition tries to make it sound
like well you’re forcing 50/50 on everyone
now that couldn’t be further from the truth we’re saying you start on equal
footing the judge still has discretion to look at other factors to determine
whether parents fit willing or able but right now we’re pretty much
rubber-stamping every case with a winner and a loser
with an every other weekend visitation schedule and from a due process – and
what you can’t go into a court room forcing one parent to prove you know to
disprove a negative they both should be assumed that they’re equal Paris
right helped out in and for most legislators unfortunate most people have
this image that legislators are working against us they’re not working against
us they’re just uneducated they don’t know and we have to put ourselves in
their shoes ten years ago if somebody would have told me about the situation I
would not have related I didn’t think there was anything wrong with every
other weekend right until it was my child missing out on those memories and
so a couple things we need to remember is when we’re talking to legislators
they’re not the enemy and like you said we’ve got a handshake we’ve got to build
relationships and think of ourselves as educating legislators not arguing with
them not threatening them that so many people that’s what they want to do they
want to go to a legislature because they watched a movie one time where somebody
you know demanded their rights with the music in the background and they think
they’re gonna be you know the next person like that and they don’t
understand it was a movie that doesn’t happen in real life
in real life you threaten the legislature you just created an enemy
it’s just like anybody else you know if two people come up to you on the street
and you’re hungry and two of them are trying to sell you hamburgers what is
very nice to you saying hey you know what type of hammer is like what you
want me to put ketchup on it what mustard what kind of and the other one
is in your face in my hammer is better you better take mine I don’t even have a
purse you know I’m gonna void that person from now on I’m not walking down
that street I’m going over to this guy and look these are the same way when
somebody calls up demanding their rights or threatening to kick them out of
office those phone calls aren’t going to be returned but if instead you go in
educating and give them the benefit of the doubt they just don’t understand
those are legislators that appreciate you know you’re working with them and so
we are making a lot of progress across the country it’s a that’s like a you
know playing pool one shot lines you up for the next most legislators don’t want
to be the first one to latch onto an issue but they don’t want to be the last
so the key is to get a little churning action going where you get some kind of
activity level of interest you know even in a totally dead state you can create
this one legislature that has any interest at all and you leverage that
with your next conversation I just met with you know representative
Smith over there and and he’s getting pretty receptive you have to be careful
of your verbiage you can’t say he’s gonna sponsor a bill or something no
it’s not true but you know he’s starting to get pretty receptive to this issue
now they’re thinking okay I’m not gonna be the first one they’ve already talked
to somebody else I don’t want to be the last okay educate me but if you can
start doing that it gets to where like in Missouri right now sure parenting is
is talked about pretty commonly in Jefferson City and you know they all
know the topic it’s not like it’s not out there anymore I just had dinner with
the governor I guess was about two weeks ago and we had there was the governor
lieutenant governor or secretary of state I mean a whole leadership on that
side of the aisle was there and you know every person I came across at that
dinner you know hey how’s your bill coming you guys gonna be filing the bill
is here and they know okay it’s coming this year and it’s probably gonna be
passed this year so we need to start creating that but that’s the other key
too is one state heart starts having success we can leverage that in other
areas and there’s a lot of problems to solve right there’s a lot of problems on
the docket that we need to be addressing one of the things that that is very
compelling to me about this issue though is the direct correlation between gun
violence and fatherlessness and to me I think that’s that’s a real trigger point
no pun intended that everyone has to latch on to like the statistics are
pretty compelling it’s like something like 95 percent plus of mass shootings
are done by a kid that didn’t have a dad right I think that’s a point that’s
starting to put this on politicians radars because up until now talking
about fatherhood book by a friend of mine Dana lash oh here is but uh Dana
lash who’s a pretty outspoken person on Second Amendment rights is this
backwards for you guys nope looks good okay but if only people
who are dyslexic were able to read it but but Dana has been a great advocate
anytime there’s a mass shooting she’s on just about all the national shows and
she actually used to live about five miles for me here in st.
and we reconnected in DC a couple of weeks ago so she’s actually gonna be
testifying in Texas this year and possibly in Missouri talk about exactly
what you said about drawing that connection to mass shootings and
fatherlessness and ironically she grew up in our situation and and just craving
time with her dad so she understands our issue and high high probability she’ll
be at our 30 and you’ll shared parenting convention in st. Louis this year
awesome and you’ve been treated so you’ve been traveling a lot recently
right you’ve traveled to I think you said 38 different cities 24 state
capitals plus DC several times how long is that sustainable mark like you are
true acted ad in all sense the word how is that long thing a sustainable my goal
is to set a template up because I really don’t want to do this all my life I mean
I’ll be active all my life there’s no doubt about this so the day I die er
everyone saw people ask me they’ll say you know what’s your what’s your exit
strategy that once these bills pass what are you gonna do and I’ll just tell you
until I die my hope is that you catch me dying on a beach somewhere I’m gonna be
talking to somebody about parental alienation or something because even
when we get the bills passed like you said there’s so many other issues that
need to be addressed with parental alienation and co-parenting issues so
I’ll be doing it I won’t be able to do it at the level I’m at and I don’t think
I want to my goal is to creat some leaders I I love John Maxwell he and I
have met on several occasions but I love his philosophy of developing leaders to
lead other leaders so in the early stages I’m out in the forefront a lot
just because I’ve got the connections and it’s it’s sort of you know the the
first person you can’t cram 20 people through the door at the same time you
need to get a bunch of people that understand ok let’s unite around one
person push them through the door now they can open it wider for them second
and the third and it gets a little easier as each person gets through the
door to get more and more through so my goal is to spend about another year and
a half getting some doors open and developing a team of about 25 leaders
that are coming behind me that they won’t need me anymore I can do a lot of
coaching behind the scenes over the phone or yeah webcast with leaders so
that it’s not the mark like I said it should never be about a
person it should never be about an organization now early on you have to
from a branding standpoint you know what I meeting with legislators it helps if
they’ve heard my name so you know a lot of people I know some people think oh my
gosh she’s on Facebook all the time is he just in love with himself and and I
understand their concerns but I’m really not I mean I can see a mirror I look
like a dork okay I am a dork but you to a degree you have to get your name out
there when you’re meeting with legislators because they have to feel
confident when their meetings with someone they understand that brand the
legislators are very fearful of meeting with an unknown person because they
don’t know is that first I’m gonna have a hidden camera somewhere or are they
gonna be a KKK member that you know the next election there’s gonna be a picture
of them meeting with this person that’s mailed out to all their constituents
saying look who they’re associating with so you have to be very careful with or
have their comments taken out of context to that’s remarkably common right
exactly and so they want to make sure that when they’re meeting with someone
they know ahead of time who they’re gonna get if you know if you’ve been
vetted properly when you meet with a legislator you can really roll up your
sleeves and really get down to business but I’ll just tell you it’s a federal
level your first meeting with a legislator they won’t even listen at all
to what you’re saying they’re listening to how you’re saying it they’re judging
you then we’re gonna go back and do research on you it’s not so the second
meeting you’re ever really gonna get your issue discussed in a meaningful way
but if you can brand yourself if they’ve heard the name before if when they’re
when there’s you know interns usually what they’ll do they held their interns
Google somebody and if they can see a huge branding of that person now they
feel comfortable now you have an effective first meeting so for this
another you know year 18 months I will be branding myself but then the goal is
to start open the door so more people can come behind sir no sir what Phyllis
Schlafly did you know for 50 years you know she became known on her issue but
it’s amazing how many doors she opened for all the people who came behind her
that now and Britney now she’s dead and yet there’s probably 2,000 people
pushing her issue now that have connections with legislators because she
open the door so I said my goal is is over the next 18 months to start
training about 25 people across the country to do what I do and I’ll just be
behind the scenes guy coaching them that’s fantastic
that’s a that’s a really good way to I think not only empowering others but
also getting your change pushed through Marc I’m curious
obviously you’re starting all of this in in trying to create this change because
you were impacted directly by not being able to have access to your child your
son on a regular basis do you feel like this movement and fighting for dads is
gonna send your son what kind of message you think that it’s gonna send to your
son when he’s old enough to understand because I think that’s one of the things
I worry about with all these back and forth between mom and dad’s that the kid
grows up he’s like dad hates mom on its dad this you know how do you think that
the way you’re handling yourself now on social media is going to impact the way
that he views you in 10-15 years that that’s probably a question I ask myself
every morning when I wake up it’s a dynamite question because you know I’m
very cognizant of the fact that once it’s on the internet it’s on there
forever yes and like I said whether I you know agree or disagree and no matter
how mad I am at things that his mother may have done in the past in his eyes
that still his mom and if I’m robbing him of the opportunity to love his mom
I’m hurting my own son just as much as she is for the things that she did and
so it’s hard but you have to get to the point where with Levi I’m always open to
discussing if he asks me but when I make it make sure I do too is don’t pressure
him into mom’s a bad person because she did this we’re talking about a system
that’s what I why I try to not get in too many details at all as you can
imagine there’s a lot of details that went on for sure people are used to of
different techniques that have happened but I try to never discuss specifics of
those I talk more about the fact that there’s a system in place that has
allowed this to happen to a degree sometimes I have to discuss things like
the 204 days to get legislators to understand look this especially in
Missouri because most of the legislators in Jeff City at least knew my name
before the sitch happen and a lot of new me very well so
it helps for them people understand what that’s mark that’s the guy that we knew
that happened to him if it could happen to him what could happen anybody right
but I think you’re right is in yeah I’m by no means an expert on
racing a child you know nobody is but I try to do that try to conduct myself in
a manner that if Levi’s ever sees any of these videos he’ll say you know what for
all the stuff that dad went through he did a fairly decent job of not attacking
mom publicly and then I think you know I’ve got the journal that I’ve written
to him every night since he was born so it’s now I come on thirty-four books now
that I’ve written where every night before I go to bed and then I could have
you seen any of the pictures but I’ve got book after book after book of these
and it’s had to reach to him before he goes to bed and I put a picture of what
we did during the day so he literally has that every single day of his life
he’s got a journal and what I’ve tried to do I started that from the 204 days I
thought just in case there’s a time when he really doesn’t know who I am maybe
maybe things happened and he really was permanently alienated from me I didn’t
want him to wonder someday I wonder if they had missed me I wonder if they had
was thinking of me so what I did is every night before I went to bed I never
put his mom down but I talked about from my perspective how I missed them and
it’s it’s still hard to talk about so I apologize I that’s really cool that’s
really that’s not something I’ve seen before but that daily journal is not
something for you to reflect on the future but something for him to reflect
on the future that is I think that’s a really powerful tool for brainy dads out
there that’s that’s really great mark number what it helps you get it out
because otherwise you bop you know or you just do an organ or recite it with
all your friends you know the first year I to my friends bless her heart Nancy
Palazzolo JA Jovan had to hear organ recital after organ recital of me cry
and their shoulder and limit yeah 11 o’clock at night to talk for an hour
about she did this and she and I know they just like set the phone down and
did laundry and came back but I did find the journal
you know away–but now you have to be careful like I said if my son’s gonna
read it I never wanted him to read it and read I was putting his mom down so
instead I just put you know hi have passed uh skip the kids at the school
bus this morning and it was so hard to do that I literally cried in the car the
rest of the way to work because I kept thinking and am I ever gonna see you at
the bus stop will I ever be sorry you know things
like that I told him what I was feeling and how so that way he would never
question my love and then I think you know I had some medical challenges and
we didn’t know how things were gonna go so I turned it into life lessons for him
to where I write down just in case I’m not around things I want him to know
I’ve got a and that’s the book that I’m writing has a whole chapter each chapter
is 18 different life lessons that came literally out of that journal different
things like you know watch how people treat waiters and waitresses because
it’s a judgement of the true character of that person and so I put little life
lessons in there for him throughout those that but I think it’s a great idea
for any dad but you start doing – you feel like you’re communicating with your
child even though they’re not there that’s a really cool even if they are
there I think it’s it’s a positive thing I create a lot of content for social
media so for me that’s kind of the legacy of the journal is kind of like
more visual but I really like I really like that idea of art that’s really cool
before I let you go I want to go through a few quick rapid-fire questions mark
because I don’t know how we’re gonna do here a little bit mark what’s your
favorite story to tell your son or read to your son
favorite story I love talking about my dad okay yeah I love tell about my dad
just because I do I guess my dad was my hero and I want him to know that legacy
of our family and hopefully someday he’ll look up to me the way I look up to
my dad but but I just want him to know how great my dad was for me that’s
awesome fantastic what about vacation where’s
your favorite place to vacation mark can go anywhere either Florida or Washington
DC believe it or not unfortunately I get a lot of sightseeing in DC I’m go there
I spend you know 18 hours a day on the hill some one of these days I take a
whole week to just do sightseeing up there right well it’s easy for you to
it’s hard to mix business and pleasure I live down here in South Florida so you
can visit anytime I will also personally be in DC for the
dad 2.0 summit in February I got a chance to interview Doug French and talk
about that so gonna be a consulate y’all be in DC that week too good cool
yeah maybe we’ll link up maybe we’ll do some running or something I know we’ll
see pineapple on pizza mark yay or nay
definite yes all right this is the best very passionate I got some very passion
answers on that one and then what what type of music do you listen to when
you’re trying to get in the zone try to get fired up you’re meeting some big big
person were you listening to unfortunately don’t listen too much
music anymore which is ironic because I used to work on the Hands Across America
project with Michael Jackson and line enriching a bunch of those guys oh wow
and but believe it or not with all of my connections and music I don’t listen to
I’m always listening to either professional development tapes or I’m at
meetings sure I don’t get to listen to the radio much anymore
I mean I’m mainly on podcast now too I like to listen to the course time
my podcast and Joe Rogan and some the other guys but podcasting the big one
cool so mark where can we find you where can all the awesome actor dads out there
where can they find you and support what you’re doing well thanks for asking it
also I do want to let people know that I really do appreciate what you’re doing
so yeah I encourage your followers to make sure that they’re sharing you’re
opposed to to help work it’s awareness because just watching it is one thing
but we need them sharing it to get that awareness out to people who may not know
that you’re out there and for me the same way especially if people are
interested in the legislative aspects I’ve got a website the AFP SP com we’ve
got the Facebook page which is spelled out Americans frequency parenting we are
getting more content our website to be honest is very weak at the current time
and that’s my fault we do have some technical IT people that
we had some conference calls this week they’re me put a lot more material up
and then I do have a Twitter account now it’s at STL Marc Ludwig and then we have
one for the organization which is at AFV SP 5505 over fifty fifty so I’d say
those are the the best ways of connecting and then as I said Monday
night every Monday at 7 o’clock Central Standard Time it’s going on the fourth
year now that on one channel or another I’ve been doing every Monday night at 7
so people can watch that it’s a good way to find out what’s going on
legislatively well I really appreciate your time mark and sharing a little bit
about what we can do is father’s and what you’re doing as a father to help
empower more dads I just think it’s it’s really commendable mark so a lot of
respect for your brother well thanks so much for having me on once again and
sincerely thanks so much for everything you do mark I appreciate it
you too you too as well mark we will talk very soon and make a count brother
all right you

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