The Nordic Model of Social Democracy: A Conversation with Swedish Prime Minister Stefan Löfven
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The Nordic Model of Social Democracy: A Conversation with Swedish Prime Minister Stefan Löfven


– Good afternoon. I’m Trevor Morrison. I’m the dean of the
law school here at NYU. I’m thrilled to welcome
you to this conversation with Swedish Prime
Minister, Stefan Löfven. A cornerstone of this law school’s mission is to provide our students with a truly global legal education. Part of that occurs in the classroom, and a lot of that occurs outside. We strive whenever we can
to welcome to the school global leaders like the prime minister, and we’re really tremendously fortunate that he’s joining us today to
talk about an important topic, the Nordic model of social democracy. Professor Philip Alston will introduce the prime
minister in a moment, but I want to thank him personally myself for joining us here today to
deliver this important talk. I also want to thank Philip, who is the John Norton
Pomeroy professor of law, and co-director of our Center for Human
Rights and Global Justice. I want to thank you for making this event
possible today, Philip. Professor Alston has
played many roles here at the law school, and even more outside of our
walls including, of course, his important work as special rapporteur with the United Nations. Philip, thank you for all of that. It’s a privilege to call you a colleague, and I’ll invite you now to
introduce the prime minister. Thank you. (applause) – Thanks, Trevor. This is a very significant event for us, and we’re really delighted
to be able to welcome the prime minister here to New
York University Law School. I’m gonna make very brief remarks to say first of all that Mr.
Löfve became prime minister only on October 3 of this year. He led the Social Democrats since 2012. Prior to that he was head of what I think is the second
biggest trade union grouping in Sweden, IF Metall. He is now heading up what he has called a feminist government. There are more women
than men in the ministry. He is not shy about Sweden’s
international aspirations. He said at a press conference Sweden will be a global role model for development, equality, and in leading the fight
against climate change. It will be a country
known for human equality, self-confidence, solidarity, and a belief in our ability
to change the future. I think we need only acknowledge that if any other country with
a population of 10 million was suggesting that it, and its relatively small
nearby neighbors had a model that the rest of the
world might want to follow we would be a little skeptical. It has to be said, however,
that Sweden and the Nordic model has long been not just
an object of fascination, but almost a sort of bellwether for the health of social
democratic politics in the world. There’s a famous quote from
Eisenhower back in 1960 where he says, Sweden exemplifies paternalistic socialism which gives rise to high rates
of suicide and drunkenness, and a lack of ambition is
discernible on all sides, he said, so Prime Minister Löfven
clearly contradicts that image. I’m not talking about his sobriety. I’m talking about the ambition, but I was amused. One can find endless quotes like this. The Economist Magazine 2010
wrote an editorial about the strange death of
social democratic Sweden. So those who want to promote radical free
marketism, or whatever, will be looking with great
pleasure at any missteps that Sweden and the Nordic model take, but much more important for us those of us who think
that social democracy is a model that ought to be followed we need to believe that it works. We need to know more about exactly how things are going in Sweden. I’m very much looking
forward to the opportunity to hear from the prime minister today, and to have a conversation
with him afterwards. Welcome, again, prime minister. (applause) – Thank you. I was thinking when I
heard this introduction, did I say that? I just want to say we’re not crazy. We know that we’re not a superpower, but having said that, I also believe it is important
to have self-confidence, and to believe that you
actually can influence things, influence the world, but being in a global economy,
and being in today’s world the most important thing is, of course, to join forces around the world, but having said that I
mean it’s very important that you have your own view
on how things can be done, and then, of course,
discuss with other partners. Thank you very much for this invitation. I’m very proud to be here. I’ve been looking forward
to this for some weeks now because I believe it is
always very interesting, encouraging, inspiring to meet
students, and I mean that. It is from my heart. It’s not just something I say, I mean it. I take every opportunity because I believe it gives me
so much to meet young people, and also listen to what you believe in, what you’re thinking of, and how your future looks like, so it’s a pleasure and
it is an honor for me. I’m going to talk today about a matter of great pride to me, and that is the Nordic
model as we label it. The Nordic model is a way of governing. It has been embraced by
the Nordic countries. It doesn’t mean that all Nordic
countries are 100% alike. We have differences, of course, between the Nordic countries. Some say when I say Sweden… When I’ve been to the U.S.
before and I’ve said Sweden a lot of Americans say, that’s where you produce
all these watches. We manufacture watches. No, that’s Switzerland,
it’s a bit further down. So we understand that
we’re very a small country, and this is a huge continent
we’re in right now, but when we talk about
the Nordic countries that might be more clear what it is, but not all the Nordic countries, Sweden, Denmark, Finland, Norway, Iceland, we’re not 100% alike, we’re not, but we have something common and that is this way of
governing the society. It has yielded good
results in terms of growth, employment, competitiveness, but, also, equality, living
conditions, and open-mindedness. I would like to emphasize
a special gender equality because I’m very proud to have appointed a gender equal government meaning not more women in the
government but it’s 50-50. It’s 12 women and it’s 12 men. We have an equal distribution
among state secretaries. We will be very clear to the authorities that you have a task to make sure that your business is run in
an equal way between the sexes. And we will have the next budget when we have more time to form the budget. It will be scrieve from
a gender perspective because this is not only
the moral right thing to do, it’s the smart thing to do because with gender equality comes a better society for everybody. So this is a thing that
we need to improve, and take further on in the Nordic model. The Nordic model is based on values. The primary aim has not only been to give every individual
his or her rights, but also to give his or her opportunities, the same opportunities for everybody. So it is you can say a model for equality, and freedom for the individual. So we have made a choice,
a moral choice that says that we want to make every
individual given this chance. We never give up on an individual. We give everybody a fair chance, and we will create a common society, which means that our common support must be the best when the
individual needs it the most. That is perhaps the most
crucial and basic explanation to the Nordic model. When you as an individual, or I as an individual are the weakest we need your support the very most. This is the message. So we believe in the state, in
the society not as a threat, but as a tool to create greater individual freedom for everybody, and, also, independence
in a way from the family, which can sound very strange. We also believe, of course,
in family and family ties, but family ties should be
built on love, of course, not on economic reasons, so that is why we need to
make sure that an individual can have his or hers own freedom. So the main pillars of the
Nordic model are these three. This is the overarching construction. First, an economic policy
focused on full employment. Second, a universal and
generous welfare system. The third one is an
organized labor market. Those are the three pillars
and let me run through them. An economic policy focused
on full employment. I will start with that one. Now the battle against unemployment has always been the core
of the Nordic model. It has been so because it means that having employment means
greater individual freedom. It is a basic prerequisite
for the freedom. It also gives a key to a strong economy. A strong economy that can also
build a welfare that we want, the welfare that we need in our society, and for the third it distribute power between
employers and employees because high unemployment
means weaker employees. The Nordic countries are
small open countries, small and open economies, and we have welcomed
globalization, for example. We have welcomed open
trade and free trade. We do not see that as threats, but on the contrary as opportunities to achieve what we want in our society, but it’s also important to say that our economy is so depending on trade. Given a figure, the Swedish export equals to 50, five, zero, percent of our GDP. I think the same figure
in the United States might be 10, 12 something, so you see we are very
dependent on this open trade, but that also means that
we need an active state. The society needs to be very active supporting an active industry policy because we need to
constantly, constantly renew, and develop our industry. We need to focus on cooperation,
research, and investment, and we work with an ongoing
modernization of our economy, job creation combined
with economic support for the unemployed, so that he or she can have
a safe path to new job. And we also invest a lot in
publicly funded education, and training, lifelong
education for everybody, especially, for unemployed people. What is the use of that? If I get unemployed I know two things. I get help to new job, training, retraining, whatever I need, but I also have a safe financial
situation for my family. I know that I do not
have to leave my house, or my apartment. I know that I can make a living through this difficult journey
on my way to a new job, so this is basically the ingredients. Now, we have another reason
for high employment rate in the Nordic country, and that is the emancipation of women. You see, here the red part of this chart is the Nordic countries, and it shows the employment rate of women meaning that the Nordic countries have a relatively high
employment rate regarding women. This is due to changing norms
in our society, of course, feminist policies, and a welfare state. A welfare state that provides
daycare for children, but, also, elderly care, and more than a year
of paid parental leave split between the parents meaning, also, that the women can pursue a
career, and have children, which is good for the
women, but also for the men. It’s good for the whole
society it’s very productive. So this high level of gender equality has given us a good economic growth, which underlines what I said earlier this is not only a moral thing to do, it’s a smart thing to do from
economic terms meaning that women can combine motherhood
with having a job and a career. This takes us to the second pillar, a universal and generous welfare system. The main focus has been here a
welfare system for everybody, for all, rich and poor, because universal solutions
have lower transaction costs, and it also means that the advantage that you mobilize everybody
to support the institutions that brings this welfare system. Sweden is, for example,
this might be very odd, I don’t know, if we are the
only country in the world. One of the few, anyway, with
a relatively popular IRS. (laughter) Have you heard of such a thing? No, you were very clear on that. The truth is when asked 69%, 69% regards the IRS in
Sweden doing a good job, and only 5% say it is doing
a very bad job or a poor job. One can say now that the
Swedish welfare system celebrates its 100th birthday, or, actually, last year because 1913 the first public pension
was introduced in Sweden, and after that followed free
healthcare, elderly care. Also, free subsidized dental care, paid sick leave and parental leave, quite high unemployment benefits
as well as other benefits, and much, much more. Now, it is not fair to say
free, although, I must add that. The term free is not really correct. This costs, there is a cost, and everyone pays through the progressive
tax system that we have, and, also, there’s a
minor fee added to this because we want to make sure that there’s a controlled
use of the welfare system. So if everybody has to pay
a small fee we make sure that the system is not misused. Of course, for example, we have 20 to $30 depending
on where you live. A visit to the doctor costs 20, $30, but it is free for children. Now this welfare system, once again, could only work with
a focus on employment. We have to have full employment, and you understand this
when you hear about this? We have to have full employment in order to be able to pay for this, otherwise, we could not have
such a generous welfare system. It’s also important to
say that such a generous welfare system cannot
discourage people from working. You must make sure that
people work when you can work. This is not an incentive not to work. The welfare system must
work as a trampoline. Trampoline to get you to the
next job if you are unemployed, or to rehabilitate if you are sick. So, that is that part. Next, the third pillar,
an organized labor market, which is also crucial. Now, this is actually an area where we believe that the state should not have a major
role, should not have. So we believe instead that
labor relations primarily is a matter between trade
unions on the one hand, and employer’s organizations
on the other hand without interference,
not all interference, but without interference as
much as possible from the state. So the main characteristic of
Swedish labor law legislation is that of social protection. This includes, for example, compulsory regulation of dismissals. It’s regulation ensuring decent
working hours, environment, and those kinds of things, but the major part, the major part of the labor markets is regulated through national
collective agreements between trade unions and employers. These agreements are
applicable to all companies, and businesses that are members of the employer’s organization
that signs such an agreement, but they’re also applicable
to every worker or employee, also, including non-union employees. This makes the regulation, and rules much, much more flexible, can more easily be adapted
to the specific requirements on different sectors of the labor market. One collective agreement
for industry workers, one for another part of the industry, let’s say the paper have one, and the engineering industry have one. You have a separate agreement
for the service sector, and so on and so on, meaning that they can adapt
the agreement to the conditions on that specific sector
of the labor market. This means that Sweden do not
have a minimum wage in law. Instead, the minimum wage is covered by the collective agreements, also, meaning that the minimum wage can be different from sector to sector. It is negotiated between
the social partners, and it also means that the social partners rather than the legislator can
use this collective agreement to adapt to the new situation
in their different sectors. It means, also, that it will not change, which is very important. The conditions will not change
if the government changes. Conditions will be changed
if the partners so negotiate. That’s a very important ingredient. Now as you understand
with that kind of a system we need high trade union density. This also shows the red part
of it is the Nordic countries. It is based on a very
high level of organization both among employers, but,
also, employees, of course. So a high degree of
collective agreement coverage, and unionization is important, as it gives legitimacy to the system. So if we give the social partners
a high degree of freedom, which we want to, it also means that you need
a high degree of organization to give that legitimacy as we want. It is crucial for the state to step back that we have a high trade union density. This is not easy to see
from your point of view. I understand this picture,
I will explain it. This is a chart that chose on one hand this is European Union countries. The red dots are the Nordic countries. The blue are the rest
of the European Union. This is a survey when you ask
people how do you perceive, have you gone through some
substantial reorganization? Have you noticed new processes, or new technology in your work? And as you see the Nordic countries have a high degree of both, whereas, the other have a lower degree, and it means that the Nordic countries are more constantly going through changes, development in their workplaces. That’s an important
message because it means that the advantages of
this system for the state has been very clear because it means in a global
economy that we need to adapt, we need to change, we need to
develop in a constant manner. We cannot make one progress this year, and wait for three years
for another progress. It doesn’t work that
way in a global economy. Constant, constant change, and this proves that the Nordic countries have a more constant change than other. It gives us productivity
and competitiveness. So, do we have challenges? Yes, this is not paradise. It’s reality. We believe in this system,
but we do have challenges. Sometimes, perhaps foremost, the challenges come
from inside the country because it sometimes is challenged by other political forces that
want to change the system. We have recently had a
conservative government in the country. They spoke very well about the model, but they did not defend it. They did not really
develop it as we wanted. What do see now? We have high unemployment. So we’ve had times when
the unemployment was if we had 2% unemployment during the ’60s that would have been very, very high. Now we have close to eight. We have been over eight. So, right now, I guess, U.S. is doing somewhat
better than we are doing because you’re lower than this. It’s now 7.8%, and our main
challenges is young people, newly immigrated people, and also people with low education. They have a tougher situation
on the labor market. So we are right now investing, and focusing on public
investment in jobs, of course, increased cooperation between industry, the social partners and researchers. We also make very major
investment in education because you can see it’s so clear that people with low education have dramatically higher unemployment, so we invest a lot in education. Our welfare system
faces the same challenge as every other developed countries, and that is changing demography. So more people get older and older, students study longer time, and the number of people who are supposed to
deliver all this welfare through employment are fewer
related to the other groups. So that’s a challenge to
us also, and we, therefore, need to focus on getting more
worked hours into the economy, making sure that students
can enter the labor market earlier than they do today, but also make sure that more people can work until at least 65
when they’re pension age. That’s the formal pension age, but many of the industry workers today they cannot work more than 61,
62 because they’re too tired, so we need to make sure they have a better working environment, so that they can also work, so we have to add more working
hours into the economy. We, also, regarding
the organization rates, trade union density we can see that it is getting higher among white collar workers, but it is decreasing among
the blue collar workers, and that is also challenged because with too low density we will have trouble
with legitimacy again, and we try everything to
avoid that kind of situation. So it is, therefore, important for us to support
trade union density, and a good relationship
between the social partners because that is still a vital
part of the labor market. So, all this gives us great challenges, however, I still see the Nordic model as great
also for the future. If we handle the Nordic
model in the right way, if we develop it and take care of it we can definitely use it in the future. I believe in it, and it will be an important
task for our government. So, in short to conclude, the Nordic model includes
an economic policy focusing on high
employment, full employment because it gives us the resources that we need for the system. Secondly, it’s a generous welfare system based on universal principles, but, also, implying that
social protection is good. It’s not good only for the individual it’s good for the whole system. Third, we need an organized labor market both for employees and employers. This model have so far
delivered many things. High income per capita. High employment. More equal income distribution. Strengthened gender equality. We now have what we believe, anyway, fairly equal. It’s not perfect, far from perfect. Fairly equal modern societies, dynamic societies that
need to stay dynamic because, otherwise, we will
not be able to compete. So this is not the perfect
system, but we believe in it. I’m a strong firm believer
in this kind of system, but we have to adapt it to a new situation constantly, constantly, to make sure that it will not
only survive, but develop. One way of doing that
is to listen to others. That is why I have not come
here just to talk myself. I want to listen to others. I want to discuss the model,
hear what you say about it. Thank you very much for listening. (applause) – Is that working? Yes, all right. Okay, well, many thanks, prime minister. I can see the headlines
in Sweden tomorrow. Prime minister concedes
Sweden is not a paradise, but claims that all Swedes
love the tax office. (laughter) We want to give an opportunity
to people in the audience to pose some questions. Can I start off with two questions, which I hope are not too complicated? One is what’s the difference
between the Nordic model, and the German model? In other words, what would
Angela Merkel be thinking if she was listening to you now? Would she be sitting here
saying unsustainable, can’t work, et cetera? The second question is
a less friendly one, and that is the race
riots of May last year, and the almost 13% vote
for the Swedish Democrats, the anti-immigration party,
what are the consequences? What’s the prospects in
light of those developments? – Well, on the Germany side, we’re not that far away, actually. They are also strong social partners. The welfare system is built in
another way to put it short, and they have recently now just also they are introducing
discussing minimum wage in law because they have experienced not least a decreasing unionization in the country. So the welfare system, the sick
leave system are different. They do not have the high rate of daycare as we have, so it means that in
Germany women do not have the same possibility
to both have a career, and to have children, for example. The riots last May was terrible. The fact that xenophobic
party, Sweden Democrats, they got 13% as you said
in the last election. I think the reason is that too many people feel the lack of hope, and that is because
that is what I mentioned that the former government
it’s not only… I’m not blaming the former government for everything that is
wrong in the country, but with a situation when the
unemployment rate goes up, and as I said people with low education they have much, much
higher unemployment rate. If you take a group 20 to 24 year old without a second upper school their unemployment rate is 35%, three, five. It was a dramatic shift
during the crisis 2008, 2009. It went like this it
never came down again, meaning that we have to make sure that they get the same education. Now, the Nordic model, the Swedish model, whatever we call it, mean exactly that, that they must get help
to get this training in order to have a place
on the labor market. They did not get that training. I was a trade union
leader during that crisis, and we turned to the government, the conservative government then we said, now we need a lot of
training during this crisis. They have training in Germany. They have training in Belgium. They have training in that country. They make sure that they
keep part of the workforce in the company because it’s
not the company’s fault, it’s not the company’s weakness it’s a decrease in demand. So when the amount increases again we need to make sure that
the employees are there, and let’s train them so they’re stronger when the upturn comes, but the conservative
government sat like this. They did nothing, so they worsened the situation in my view. This is my view. So what we need to give these
young people also is hope. We have been not good enough, and that goes for both the
conservative government that just left. It goes for us as well. We have not been good enough to make sure that people that
come from other countries also being introduced on the labor market that we fully use their capacity because we have doctors, engineers, people with high education level that can’t enter into the labor market, so there’s a weakness in
that part of the system. That is also why we have these riots because when these kids
see there’s no future what is the respond? That is that kind of violence, so we need to show them there is a future, and that is why we now
invest so much in education, for example. – Great, so the time is
very short, unfortunately. The prime minister is serious about wanting to meet with students, so he’s gonna meet with a group
at the end of this lecture. He’s also gonna meet
briefly with the media, so we’ve only got really about
five or six minutes left. So if we could take, I don’t know, three or four questions from the audience, and then we can ask the
prime minister to respond. Maybe at the back there. There’s a microphone on the side there. I think it’s best if you use that, so we can hear you clearly. – [Woman] Is this on, okay. – Yes, I think so. – [Woman] I had two sort of, hopefully, maybe quick and kind
of technical questions. The first is for active industrial policy I think that’s an exciting potential for economic development, but the shortfall seems to
be in selecting industries to receive support, investment,
and to receive training sort of emphasis for the workforce. So how do you select industries
in a forward looking way to receive that kind of investment, or support from the government? The second question is more generally why do you think we’re seeing
such dramatically falling labor union participation
rates all around the world? In the U.S. labor unions are a fraction of their previous power, and if they’re also falling
in the Nordic countries, and Germany why do you think that is, and how can they be re-empowered? – Okay, thank you. Yes, the gentleman next to the mic, yeah. – [Man] Thanks so much for
coming, prime minister. I was wondering you spoke
briefly about immigration, and that you think one of
the answers is to put more into education of immigrants
who are already in the country, but I was wondering if you
could speak to how you think immigration law and
policy generally interface with the social democratic model? I know it’s a very high contested
issue in the United States right now just immigration
non-policy generally. So I was wondering if you could please speak to that as well? – Okay, yes, lady at the back. – [Woman] Hi, yes, I was
wondering, you mentioned, you discussed the Nordic model as having a sort of trampoline effect, and I wanted to know in
terms of benefits and such how do you create it that it’s not… Like what are the specific mechanisms that allow it to have a trampoline effect rather thank like
encouraging unemployment? Thank you. – Okay, how do you take the
spring out of the trampoline? Yeah? – [Man] Thank you Mr.
Prime Minister, again, for the talk it was very
interesting and informative. A quick question I hope. You did mention that
globalization and free trade are intrinsic to the Nordic model. There are many people who
think that particularly from an environmental standpoint that some of the challenges
you mentioned are actually potentially linkable to embracing
corporate substructures, particularly things like
rising inequality and such, so I would ask while embracing globalism, and potentially sometimes corporate models how does your model also address the need for environmentalism,
sustainability, and responsible consumption both on the part of people inside Sweden, and around the world if
you want the model to be even more of an inspiring
one to global nations? Thank you. – Good, it’s good to
have some very simple, straightforward questions. (laughter) Maybe the last question, and then we’ll ask the prime minister if he can bear to respond
to such a long list. – [Woman] Thank you Mr. Prime Minister, and I’ll just say at the offset. (speaking in foreign language) Sorry, I’ll say my question in English, but as a Swede I just had
to show my solidarity. My question is, I think, simple. Given the recent incursion
of foreign submarines in Swedish waters is Sweden
gonna be joining NATO, and giving up very proud pacifist history in participating in the
global selective security? Thank you. – This is clearly the time and
the place for you to announce the end of Swedish neutrality. (laughter) – Are media here? First, regarding industry policy. Well, I do not believe
in this pick the winners, not too detailed because
we cannot pick the winners. The market knows best what is working, and what is not working, but clearly some areas
that we are strong in, that we can stay strong. One of those is life science, and, therefore, we
invest a lot in research, and innovation in life science because it will never come out of fashion. How do we solve the cancer issue? This is health for people. This will always be important, and if you combined research, education, healthcare, and medicine technology, and all these things we can say, so this is one of the few areas that we have chosen to go deeper into. I believe that the important
thing for politicians is to support the kind of renew, find new areas so to speak, so innovation is the key word. How do we support going from an idea, the knowledge that I have
in my head now to a product, or goods or service that
will sell on the market? That kind of support
without picking the winners because I don’t know who will be winner in
five years, in 10 years, but the market knows and it
will be developed by the market, but the combination of market economy, and political support I
think that is the solution, so I don’t know if that’s
the answer to your question, but I think that is the model that we want to achieve and develop. The trade union rates go down. Well, one of the thing is
that the workers are weaker, which should make them
unionized even more, but we have today a system where… Sorry. Conditions where, where the employers can decide so much more. You put more pressure you
have short-term employment. You have a job today. We do not know if you have a
job tomorrow, or next week. In those kind of conditions you put more pressure on the individual, and they say, well, can I, can I… Is it any use for me to
stay within the trade union because I don’t know if I work tomorrow, or work next week. Those are one of the
things that have happened change our labor market. To me it’s even more reason
to join the trade union, to join your efforts and your resources, but that’s one of the
things that have happened. I also believe sometimes
we forget our history. We don’t talk about the history because what’s a trade union? Trade union is to me the most important, perhaps, thee most important ingredient in a democratic society. Organized employees taking
care of their interests is one of the absolutely most
important ingredients so, but we’re doing is we’re trying to support not only trade union, but also the employer’s organization because we want stronger partners. Both partners are the part of the model. It’s not just one partner, both partners. So we’re trying to give
incentives for them to find new ways of collective agreements. On immigration, well, there
are two forms of immigration. One is refugees, and one
is the labor immigrants, those who come to work. We have within the European
Union we have regulation that said I can go from one country within the European
Union to another country to look for a job, so that is obvious that we, of course, we apply to those rules. Regarding refugees we see now in the world we now have more than 50
million, five, zero, million, people are refugees. We have not had more refugees
since the Second World War. That’s the situation in the world now. Take a look at the
Middle East, Syria, Iraq, and what is happening. 500,000 out of those meaning 1% enters the European Union 1%. We have millions in Jordania. We have millions in Lebanon. We have million in Turkey. 1% goes to the European Union. We say on our part I will not
slam the door in the face. Let’s say you have a man or
woman come to your country say if I go back I’ll be killed. I cannot slam the door in their face when individuals come to our country looking for a place
where they can survive. So part of it is due to labor. Part of it is refugees. We will do our best. We will still discuss
within the European Union that more countries need
to take responsibilities, but still 1% of all the
refugees in the world goes to Europe, so I
think we can handle that. The trampoline effect. Well, it’s two things that are crucial. One is the practical
help to get back to job meaning often training, retraining, some kind of path back to the job. Perhaps you need to change
your occupation totally, but doing so, if you put that into the
hands of the individual it may be very, very hard
to do it on your own, but if we do together I can
tell you if you get unemployed you will have a chance to retraining, but you need to also take that chance. You cannot just sit home and say I don’t want to work anymore. Well, sorry, if you do that you will not
have any unemployment benefits, so training help to new
job, financial stability, economic stability during the time, but if you do not do your
part you won’t get help, so that’s the strategy and
that is why we believe in it. So it’s not like you can
choose work or not work. If you don’t do your
part it will be tough. The environmental issue,
well, both politics you have to be very firm
on the goals that you set. This is a goal for reducing
CO2 emissions, for example, and then you through tax system, and whatever you can do you give incentives to reduce
the emissions, for example, but it’s also a consumer thing
because companies are smart. They see if they act in a green way the consumers are more happy. The consumers tend to
turn to your company, but if you act in a bad way consumers may turn their back on you, which is not a good thing,
so politically and consumer. This is very short now, but I’m giving short answers. Submarine, NATO, no, there will
be no application for NATO. We still believe, I’m serious about this. I’m convinced that we
won’t have a safer Europe if you move the NATO line because it’s Sweden and
Finland, Sweden and Finland. We are staying out of NATO. If Sweden entered NATO,
Finland entered NATO, then you will have a border
exactly closer to Russia, and that is not a smart thing to do. We believe, we are convinced that with these two
countries staying out of NATO it’s a safer situation for Sweden. It’s a safer situation
for Europe it’s better, so we will stay out of NATO, but we are cooperating with NATO. – Good, I think on that note we can end. I want to thank you again on
behalf of everyone here for… (applause)

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